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Hi everyone! I know it's been a while since I've posted. Luna has bee great and cuddly as ever. But there has been a couple of things going through my head and I would like some input and personal experiences to help with my decision.

In the last week she has had 2 broken blood feathers - 1 on each wing. I think her last clip was too severe. With the first broken feather, I think she hit the edge of the coffee table and broke the feather, I don't know how the second one broke.

This has led me to rethink the clipping altogether. Do full flighted birds break blood feathers? Those of you who clipped in the beginning then let the flight grow out - how did it change your relationship? Have any of you spent time training your full flighted bird the commands like come and stay? Do you keep up with the training? Have you had any accidents with flight - flying into hazards like windows, open cooking pots in the kitchen and any other hazards? Have you lost your birds from flight with training to come on cue? What about the tops of the furniture and poop? Do your birds poop in a special place or is it every where? Have you tried to train your flighted bird to poop in a special place? Are they more mischievous while being full flighted.

The broken blood feathers have me worried. Luckily I was home when it happened and was there to pull them. I'm afraid my partner won't be able to take care of it alone if needed.

Thanks for the input

Jo

None of my birds have ever broken blood feathers in their wings, and all are full flighted. I have had Casey or Annabelle chew one off when their wings were growing in, but never since their feathers have come in. I have seen small broken blood feathers (like on their necks or small feathers on outside of wings (but not flight feathers).

hope this helps

HI Jackie, I never seen another broken feather on Luna other then flights. Have you ever had issues of escape or not being able to get them to come down?

Jo

My tiels have always been flighted, but during the last 3-5 years, I've been letting larger birds who'd always been clipped learn to fly. I'll try to answer some of your questions from my experiences with them. But first I want to say that blood feathers only need to be pulled if the bleeding cannot be stopped. If there's ever a next time (and maybe you did this but didn't mention it), mix water and baking soda or corn starch to make a thick paste and use a fingertip to dab a little onto the break in the feather. Hold it there for a minute or three and see if the bleeding is stopped. In many years of many tiels, I've had only a few broken blood feathers and haven't pulled one in over a dozen years. A healthy bird's blood coagulates quickly, and the blood begins receding away from the broken place. In 24 hours, there's almost no chance of it breaking open again, even if the bird hits it against something again. Wild birds would never make it otherwise!

Those of you who clipped in the beginning then let the flight grow out - how did it change your relationship?

I'm having relationship problems with only one newly-flighted bird -- an older African grey who has periods of aggression that are very threatening. He latched onto my left hand yesterday and left it bleeding in 5 places. I'm giving hard thought to clipping him again. Very discouraging. He's had his beautiful wings for 5 years, but doesn't choose to fly often, and has never been this aggressive before. I've been hoping it would pass, but it's scary.

Other birds who've begun to fly are just as loving as they were when clipped. But wings let them come to me anytime, and that gets old. I keep 3 stands around my computer table and the birds compete for space on them. One just realized this past week that she can fly to mom's shoulder whenever she wants to, and there's not a waking moment that she doesn't want to. I'm hoping she'll eventually tire of her new game, but she's locked in her cage now, while all the other birds are out. Not ideal. Another bird whose wings regrew last month learned in just a couple weeks that she's happy on one of the stands near me, so her constant flights onto my head have ended -- yay!

Have any of you spent time training your full flighted bird the commands like come and stay? Do you keep up with the training?

When I serve meals, I always tell the birds on the stands near my table to Come and eat! I say it repeatedly while standing beside each one's cage and I'm hoping they'll learn to come on command. Most wait for me to give them a ride back to dinner

Have you had any accidents with flight - flying into hazards like windows, open cooking pots in the kitchen and any other hazards?

Many have flown into windows, so I have lots more gray hair than I used to. Thank goodness none has been injured. They do learn, but there are lots of hawks in my region who scare the begeevers out of them regularly. Fright flights can get dangerous. I'm extremely careful when cooking to keep every pan and hot eye covered. Hot dish water is a hazard too. I love soaking things before loading the dishwasher, so now that must happen after birds are in bed. Also, toilet lids must be closed. Hard when you don't live alone. Might be easier to install a spring-loaded thing to close the bathroom door.

Have you lost your birds from flight with training to come on cue?

They get lost regularly and wreak havoc in all those hidden places. Highly frustrating. They chew anything wood, fabric, or plastic. Only one of mine will chirp when I call her name. The others love being lost and demolishing our home. And while they're lost, of course I dare not open a door to the outside, or sit in a stuffed chair, or walk without watching each step. They adore any place that's small and dark, so even if they fly under a chair, sofa, or bed unintentionally, once there, they're enthralled and have no desire to be rescued. They'll go back to it too. The shoe-molding around my kitchen is rapidly being chewed to splinters by birds who love the way the cabinets overhang just 4 inches. Some get VERY mad when mom wants to take them away from their nesty spots.

What about the tops of the furniture and poop? Do your birds poop in a special place or is it every where? Have you tried to train your flighted bird to poop in a special place?

With all these other problems, poop becomes totally inconsequential. But, yes, they do poop wherever they are. Some poop the second they land, some just before lifting off again. When they spend 10 minutes atop the vertical blinds, there's cleaning to be done once I find them. Those who claim the stands around my computer have papers underneath to catch their poop. It's the strays who keep me from ever getting bored.

Are they more mischievous while being full flighted.

Just guess!

It's true about having to pull the broken blood feathers......I haven't had to pull any of Boss's either and she has broken quite a few.......every time the bleeding stops quickly and I put flour and water on it. The dried blood stays on the feathers for a a few days, and Boss being so light colored, I can see it afterwards for quite a while......but she always heals up great!
I don't really know if it's less likely to happen if you let the wings grow out......I haven't taken Boss to get clipped in a while and her feathers are growing out and she hasn't had any accidents lately or broken any blood feathers in a while.......the thing with her though is if I don't get her clipped, I risk another injury, which she is in danger of now every time she's out! I know, but I have had so many things going on lately, and two weddings in my family, one right after the other, my brother and sister, so I have to get Boss to the vet for a clip very soon!! I'll take a broken blood feather anyday over the injury and having to take meds again!

During a panic, it is completely possible for a fully flighted bird to break a blood feather. I've had it happen several times.

Hi Jo,

As you know, I've always been against clipping, but of course, that's just my feelings and my situation. As we have always discussed, each owner has different circumstances, and they are more able to decide to clip or not. To answer some of your questions, a bird with clipped feathers probably has a better chance of breaking a cut feather than one whose length is full. Clipped feathers, especially the normal clip which leaves stubs is not flexible like a full length feather, and with that, any time that feather is bumped or hit, it breaks instead of bending like a full length feather would. As you probably remember, Chibi had so much trouble with broken feathers because there was none left to help protect the new feathers growing in, but then again, his clip was so severe, it's a wonder he ever regrew flights.

Relationship..

After he finally regrew all his flights, he had a hard time in the beginning of learning to fly, and his confidence level was very low in the beginning, but as he learned his ability to fly, he finally had become a good flyer. Prior to his flighted condition, he was just a normal acting bird, and he depended on us to take him everywhere. Once he could fly, because of his confidence and ability to fly, he would come to us whenever he wanted to, or fly off the same. Overall, I'd say our relationship became better, because he realized he was no longer a ground-pounder, and he was definitely happier.

Training..

No training of any kind, other than what was safe and what was not. We have always permitted all the kids to decide when they wanted us and not the other way around, however it was routine for Emi or I to go to the cage or bird room and select whoever we wanted to be with us. In many cases, we didn't have to ask or even hold out a hand, they would just hop on.

Accidents..

Yes, we've had accidents, one very serious which led to Chikara's death, and a bunch of accidents that caused broken blood feathers with Chibi, and to some extent, Ginger. Most accidents are things like flying into windows, walls, and most times, all this happens during a panic. After everyone learned they could not fly through a window, the occurrence of window strikes has dropped to nil, however a panic flight does still cause some of them to occasionally fly into the windows, but not hard enough to cause any injury. As for flying into, or dropping into stuff in the kitchen, no, but they have all learned the stove is off limits, even though many times they will line up on top of the china cabinet and top of the refrigerator watching us cook, just like a bunch of vultures The most "dangerous" of all the kids is Missy. Any time cooking is going on, she can become hell-bent on getting right in the middle of whatever is going on, and loses respect for the hot pans and stove top, but when she gets like that, I normally will take her away from the stove area and have at times, locked her and the others in the bird room. Just about all of them at some time, accompany us to the bathroom, and it seems none are fascinated with the commode. The ones that normally go are the same ones we take to the shower with us.

Coming on cue..

A few of the kids will find places to hide, and sometimes during a panic flight, they will get into places we don't normally permit them to go, like the spare bedroom, or our bedroom. Pixie was notorious for doing that, and when you call for her, she'd not make a peep. I think between Gizmo, Ginger, Pixie, Cappy, and Shelly, they are the ones who would remain quiet while we search the house top to bottom looking for them. They can find places in plain view to sit, but it's one of the places you don't normally look for. I've almost panic attacked myself when I thought someone had somehow managed to get outside, when in fact, they were just sitting in a non-normal place!

Poop..

Really, it's a non-issue, because we know they are going to poop wherever they are, and the places they perch are the places we clean regularly. Many, many times per day, we go on poop patrols looking for the stuff, and given that we know most of the places they wander off to, that's where we look. Of course, flying poop is a problem, but you just expect this kind of stuff and deal with it.

Mischief..

Not really. They can get to more places, but I had Missy and Gizmo destroy the edge of the patio door when neither could fly that well when they were both really youngsters. Now, they attack the cabinet molding and anything else where they spot a little speck or irregularity on the wall, or a piece of wood. I guess this falls into the same category as some of the other issues, we expect it and deal with it while trying to discourage them destroying the house or their room. As you may have seen the picture of where they stripped the drywall paper off an area in their room, and started chewing into the gypsum making a pencil sized hole. It does not take very long for them to destroy something either. Those sharp little beaks can chew into stuff you'd not think would be attractive to chew on, but to them, if it's not steel, iron, or some other non-chewable substance, then it's fair game

Thanks for the replies everyone! I know I don't have to decide now - I could see how things progress as her new flights start growing in. A lot of the decision will depend on my Significant Other, since he is not in good health, he is the one who will have to deal with her throughout the day. If it gets to the point where he can't keep after her with her wandering ways, then I'll have to clip her.

Decisions decisions