I don't understand the problem with hybred birds?

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Re: I don't understand the problem with hybred birds?

Postby Petter on Mon May 19, 2008 11:48 am

PurpleHeart wrote:500 years is but a speed bump in the history of the Mighty Macaw who has been around for 80 million years.

Where did you get this number? I've been unable to find any data on parrot evolution. (From sources like Wikipedia it looks to be inflated by a factor of at least two -- but then, Wikipedia isn't exactly 'authorative'...)

They were also used for food, as one account of a captain in the 1300's told us that Macaws did not taste good.

Do you have a source for this? Since macaws are native to South and Central America and the Caribbean, and since Europeans (excepting Vikings) did not reach the Americas until 1492, I'd be interested to hear where this 14th century captain got a hold of one...
"The plural of 'anecdote' is 'anecdotes', not 'data'."


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  • Re: I don't understand the problem with hybred birds?

    Postby PurpleHeart on Mon May 19, 2008 12:51 pm

    You have to study the first civilization in that area... hint Inca & Aztec, way before the days of the Spanish and European arrival to this side of the world. I know most people think that life began around here (on this continent) when the Europeans Invaded ;)

    Special note to Macaw presence 80 million years ago, see this article

    Parrot Fossil from the Cretaceous Pushes Back Origin of Modern Land Birds
    by Robert Sanders, published by the University of California-Berkeley

    Republished by City Parrots

    http://www.cityparrots.org/1998/11/18/p ... and-birds/
    Last edited by PurpleHeart on Tue May 20, 2008 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: I don't understand the problem with hybred birds?

    Postby Petter on Mon May 19, 2008 1:07 pm

    PurpleHeart wrote:You have to study the first civilization in that area... hint Inca & Aztec, way before the days of the Spanish and European arrival to this side of the world. I know most people think that life began around here (on this continent) when the Europeans Invaded

    No, but since most South American civilisations lacked writing, we do not have a great deal of historical records from that time. In fact, did any of the South American civilisations have writing, beyond knotted cords for accounting purposes? And for the record, are you saying that your "1300's captain" refers to an Inca or Aztec sailor?

    Special note to Macaw presence 80 million years ago, see this article [...]

    That's a very interesting article (thank you!), but it suggests that ancestral parrots, not anything very like modern macaws, let alone modern macaw species, were present at that time.
    "The plural of 'anecdote' is 'anecdotes', not 'data'."
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    Re: I don't understand the problem with hybred birds?

    Postby PurpleHeart on Tue May 20, 2008 6:05 am

    Well it will take more than a hat in hand to find the actual written "quote" of this. I did make a mistake however, and included all the information in the same paragraph, which was an error. The actual account from my memory was from a European Explorer who mentioned that in one of his journals, the excerpt was in mention of a native telling him that Macaw's were not that good of a food source, and that other selections of other animals were better "tasting."

    And if you'd check again in the article I linked above you'll find two very important passages:

    “This find suggests that by the end of the Cretaceous period, around 65 to 70 million years ago, modern birds were an important group, at least in North America,” said author Stidham.

    Modern birds will be explained later in the report.

    "This specimen, only half an inch long, was probably from a bird about the size of a macaw, and most closely resembles the lories of Australia and some of the South American macaws. It thus is the oldest known parrot and the oldest reported modern land bird.

    This thesis was conducted with support from the University of California-Berkeley Genome Project which (debatably) is the largest repository of DNA not only for animals in general but avian species as well. Berkeleyan Press 1992

    Initial report from Cal-Berkeley: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan ... ossil.html When Dr. Stidman submitted his thesis upon his Doctorial candidacy. This thesis has been thoroughly vetted (since 1998) and has appeared in several leading scientific journals. At this point I don't think we need to challenge any of it's authenticity (the origin of modern land-terrestrial birds,) but rather how this information can help us understand the initial territories of Macaws (just South American to now areas of the USA) and how our planet has evolved in weather conditions/heating-cooling as it relates to global warming.
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    Re:

    Postby Harleys_Dad on Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:24 pm

    Cherane said: Obviously, you've never met my 3rd generation hybrid yellow dominant Capri macaw, Bowie. :lol:


    cherane,

    I have to say I still think my Harley is beautiful but when I saw the pictures of Bowie.... I have to say he is breath taking. One beautiful birdy.

    Jim
    And there's nothing wrong with me. This is how I'm supposed to be. In a land of make believe, that don't believe in me.
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    Re: Re:

    Postby Irish on Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:17 pm

    Harleys_Dad wrote:
    Cherane said: Obviously, you've never met my 3rd generation hybrid yellow dominant Capri macaw, Bowie. :lol:


    cherane,

    I have to say I still think my Harley is beautiful but when I saw the pictures of Bowie.... I have to say he is breath taking. One beautiful birdy.

    Jim


    Actually, Bowie is MY bird. I imagine that Cherane must have been quoting me saying that. Just makin' sure there's no mix-up :-).
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    Re: Re:

    Postby Harleys_Dad on Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:08 pm

    Irish wrote:
    Harleys_Dad wrote:
    Cherane said: Obviously, you've never met my 3rd generation hybrid yellow dominant Capri macaw, Bowie. :lol:


    cherane,

    I have to say I still think my Harley is beautiful but when I saw the pictures of Bowie.... I have to say he is breath taking. One beautiful birdy.

    Jim


    Actually, Bowie is MY bird. I imagine that Cherane must have been quoting me saying that. Just makin' sure there's no mix-up :-).



    Sorry about that.
    And there's nothing wrong with me. This is how I'm supposed to be. In a land of make believe, that don't believe in me.
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