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rj wrote:I don't intend to be rude but Mfids is on every chat topic here. Do you have every kind of bird? How much experience could you have in your 19 years of life?

19 years old ahhhhhh to be young again and an expert on everything.........life was good way back when......as for me I'm over the hill and can't remember half of what i used to know yesterday lol

An Emergency Room Doctor from Ohio told me the story of how the Catalina Macaw got their name. It supposes back before WW1 when the Wrigley (chewing gum) family purchased Catalina Island to make it their "exclusive" family recreational home that the species was already there on the Island.

And they (tried) used this fact to keep the Federal Government at that time from excersising sovernity over this piece of land off California to be used as a training base. Also present on the island were pairs of Scarlets and pairs of Blue and Golds who did not choose to hybridize.

Needless to say the Wrigley's lost their case and twice since then the military has used their island to practice everything from bombing missions to full scale assults. It was after WW2 that San Clemente Island was used and there too were these hybrid macaws living peacefully together and co-exsisting with other "full blooded species" of Scarlets and Blue and Gold's. The US Government had to catch and release on the other island, Catalina, all of the parrots on San Clemente.

So where did these parrots come from in the first place?

Did pirates bring them ashore and they got away?

Or are these remanents of early colonies of Macaws that inhabitated North America? And they could not make the flight back to the mainland USA?

We will never know as the Macaw parrot dates as far back as 80 million years in North America (see parrot fossils found on the Wyoming-Montana border-link below) Did these beautiful birds survive the dinosaurs and other "toothed winged adversaries" just to retreat to where they can be found in the wild today?

The fact that "man" has placed names on these species does that mean that this is the only species of Macaw? Where did the full line come from?

We are learning more everyday.

Parrot Fossil from the Cretaceous Pushes Back Origin of Modern Land Birds http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan ... ossil.html

rj wrote:... How much experience could you have in your 19 years of life? I think that advice should only be given from your own experiences. People aren't asking to be quoted common sense answers, we aren't stupid....

In most situations, anecdotal experience is considered far inferior to documented research findings, which Monica often provides. Maybe you don't intend to be rude (or stupid), but I challenge you to find inaccurate information that MFids has passed along to us. Maybe you weren't knowledgeable when you were 19, but history is full of accomplishments of those her age. I feel you owe her an apology, both of you.

Paca

Since obviously we all have access to a computer, we also have access to research findings. If I find something helpful, I cut and paste the exact information from the source,or give a site address. I don't pretend to know everything nor do I find it necessary to challenge experience.

rj wrote:... I don't pretend to know everything nor do I find it necessary to challenge experience.

I could surely be wrong, but I felt that Denis and Monica enjoyed their exchange of information. Questioning is an age-old method of learning. I feel that you interpreted it as a challenge to Denis' experience because it threatened you to realize a 19 year old might be so knowledgeable.

Again, I feel you owe her an apology.

Paca

MFids wrote:...I appreciate the info you've seen among the flock in Costa Rica ...

Denis wrote:... Thanks for the nice e-mail.

Denis

MFids wrote:... what is your opinion on their personality and habits?

Denis wrote:... Thanks for your comments as it is always nice to hear someone else's input.

Denis

MFids wrote:... I'd like your opinion on these two hybrids...

.... so would be interested if you've spoken with other queen breeders and the behaviors of their breeders?

Denis wrote:I think you are misunderstanding me... I might have written this so that i confused you and confused myself. Sometimes I think one thing and write something else that I think that others will understand, but I write it so that only I can understand what I wrote...

rj wrote:I don't intend to be rude but Mfids is on every chat topic here. Do you have every kind of bird? How much experience could you have in your 19 years of life? I think that advice should only be given from your own experiences. People aren't asking to be quoted common sense answers, we aren't stupid. I didn't think that Denis' post was at all confusing.

rj wrote:Since obviously we all have access to a computer, we also have access to research findings. If I find something helpful, I cut and paste the exact information from the source,or give a site address. I don't pretend to know everything nor do I find it necessary to challenge experience.

The issue being YOU didn't do the research Monica did. So why didn't you find the info. If you say it doesn't concern you, well niether does this. Monica is a nice person. I know her from some other boards. She is always willing to help someone out. that doesn't mean we haven't disagreed before. I agree an apology is in order. Also from Michigan.

Mike

I didn't need to research anything and I'm certainly not threatened by the knowledge of a nineteen year old. I do however think that there is a difference in being knowledgeable and simply quoting information to give the illusion of knowledge.

I didn't need to research anything and I'm certainly not threatened by the knowledge of a nineteen year old. I do however think that there is a difference in being knowledgeable and simply quoting information to give the illusion of knowledge. I think it's great that she wants to help. I simply stated my opinion, which I have the right to do, as do all of you.

rj wrote:... I simply stated my opinion, which I have the right to do, as do all of you.

Yes m'am, and a wonderful freedom that is! When we're free to speak and to listen and read, we can learn a tremendous amount. Your opinions have certainly informed me about you.

Paca

ParrontPlus wrote:

rj wrote:... I simply stated my opinion, which I have the right to do, as do all of you.

Yes m'am, and a wonderful freedom that is! When we're free to speak and to listen and read, we can learn a tremendous amount. Your opinions have certainly informed me about you.

Paca

Yes they have

As have yours.

Denis wrote:I think you are misunderstanding me. I was talking about the two hybridizing with each other. I know about conures and conures and macaws and macaws as that was what my topic started with.

I think what RJ was meaning in their post was that MFID was taking the subject off topic and actually bring up a new thread. Since this origional topic was started and now continued in the Macaw thread and only suppling anectodial material and not "subject line" material her reply about a 19 year old was appropriate and to the point.

As a father who has raised five children I know how children can tend to get off subject line. What we aspire to produce here is new material with personal experiences and not a discussion "as in a roukus classroom."

Maybe true MFID has stood up and responded to postings but if she was in my class I would thank her for the "reference material" but I would direct her back in line.

The subject remains "Hybrid Macaws" and from what I gather many are joining this thread to read more material. This is a hot button enough "thread" when it comes to Macaws, let alone any other species.

I support Rj in what their posts initial intent was. As for any of these other chat room diatribes, let it be and get on with "Hybrid Macaws."

PurpleHeart wrote: I think what RJ was meaning in their post was that MFID was taking the subject off topic and actually bring up a new thread... I support Rj in what their posts initial intent was...

You're exceedingly generous to the older woman.

RJ, I see your concern, and have also e-mailed you (in response to apology). Simply put, how is one to learn if one isn't willing to do the research? I've also learned from people who HAVE owned these larger species. I've handled various species as well, from major mitchell's, galahs, umbrellas, hyacinth macaws, ruby macaws, miligold?s, and more. I've seen port lincolns, black palm cockatoos, vasa parrots, and more. I certainly wouldn't be able to learn about these birds if I didn't know about them, or if I didn't read what others had to say about them. So no, I can't say I've had personal experience caring for many of these birds, but I HAVE seen them in person to get an idea of what their personalities are like, what their noise lvl is like, and yes even gotten bitten by some.

I've only been into bird keeping since I was 12, however I've been fascinated by flighted creatures since I was a toddler. I've literally scared the bageebies out of my family (when I was a toddler) with something I did back then....

Some of what I have shared is actually experience, while other stuff is what I've learned from others. I may not always be able to quote something, if I can't recall where I've read it, and I do sometimes quote information I've read, but I don't tend to all the time. Yes, I know I may come out as a "know it all", but I know that I'm not.



Phoenix, can't quote anything I'd read since it was a couple months back, but there have been some articles of parrots breeding in their natural habitat. There's actually a naturally occuring hybrid rosella. I've heard reports that macaws, if they can't find a proper mate of their own, will take one of another species. Do I have pics to prove it? No. I can tell you for a fact though that I've seen pictures of a sun conure/green cheek conure hybrid, which nobody (or almost nobody) thought was possible... yet it happened. I've seen pics of a hybrid galah/cockatiel, as well as conure/macaw hybrids... so I used to think that hybrids didn't really occur NATURALLY in a birds NATURAL habitat (and NOT in a place that they are not natural to but have been living in for years), but I've been reading articles that have said otherwise, with the naturally occuring hybrid rosella as proof, for an example.

I've once read from a breeder (Many-Feathers? breeder of hybrid macaws) that by the 4th or 5th generation, that these hybrids get harder to breed because there's a larger chance of infertility. This is why we don't really see much beyond a 2nd or 3rd generation hybrid macaw.


Purpleheart, thanks for the article about parrot fossils in the US! I do know that the Carolina parakeet (conure) and thick billed parrot all used to live in the states, so it doesn't surprise me that there could very well be others! Wouldn't be surprised either, if some species from South America decided to migrate north (wonder what reasons they would have had?).

ParrontPlus wrote:

PurpleHeart wrote: I think what RJ was meaning in their post was that MFID was taking the subject off topic and actually bring up a new thread... I support Rj in what their posts initial intent was...

You're exceedingly generous to the older woman.

I just happen to know Rj personally, and would trust her at "any time" with "any of my babies!" Her and Husband (like myself) are retired military.

I was not being nice to her on account of being any age or even the fact that I know her personally, but from what I've read in the posting. It's not unusual fellow Macaw Breeders to think alike. I was on this board several years ago and lost interest due to chat room politics. When I talked to Rj and her husband lately I thought I'd give it another try.

Being a "Retired Marine" I've had my share of molding 19 year old minds and bodies. I am online most of time writing them as they are now in harms way and still seek my advice and encouragement. I am a fair and just person and have thick skin with a leather neck and told I still have a sense of humor around me. Don't even think that you or anyone can prejudge me.

I've fed the tree of freedom, WITH MY BLOOD, and now in my retirement I'm going to finally enjoy some of these freedoms before they are all gone. One of them being my freedom to write what I feel is wrong.