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Yeah, Cougar...... I said as much about the "hate speak" back on 4/4 (long before that, actually), but it doesn't make a bit of difference to the "born again pure species" crowd. They just can't give it a rest & live & let live.............. I got quite a complimentary email from El Salvador today....wanting to know if I was licensed to ship one of my colorful kids down there. Got a kick out of that one.

Barb

caraparrots wrote:... I got quite a complimentary email from El Salvador today....wanting to know if I was licensed to ship one of my colorful kids down there. Got a kick out of that one.

Barb

How sad. Thank goodness wise people with the birds' well-being in mind have made that illegal. But maybe you know how to get around the laws . . .

ParrontPlus wrote:

caraparrots wrote:... I got quite a complimentary email from El Salvador today....wanting to know if I was licensed to ship one of my colorful kids down there. Got a kick out of that one.

Barb

How sad. Thank goodness wise people with the birds' well-being in mind have made that illegal. But maybe you know how to get around the laws . . .

What the hell is up with this feud? Do you two know each other- Barb- I feel Paca attacks many on here- one reason my Husband quit the forum!

Paca- get over yourself and grow up!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't the slightest idea who they are.........they're a nobody....a bully, at best. I was trying to be polite by using the phrase "born again pure species crowd". What I really meant was born again panel opening! I'm still trying to remain polite. I used to just blow them off, in one ear & out the other so to speak....even amidst the death threats...... turn the other cheek.....but I only had 4 cheeks to turn & I ran out. I'm proud of what I've accomplished over the years as a small hobby breeder & value the good reputation I've earned in the bird community......& intend to keep it. It's so easy for them to tear someone down.....in a forum such as this.......or elsewhere. But it has taken a long time for me to earn my good standing & I will no longer give the bullies of the internet bird world the opportunity to trash me without defending myself. I resent having to utilize my time....which could be much better well spent....replying to their taunts. I certainly don't waste my valuable time spewing garbage about people just because we happen to disagree about bird matters, politics, global warming.......whatever! I have a life....obviously they don't. They're just so pitiful.

Well, I agree with you and not them- I to love all birds and will not trash anyone who breeds, sells ect. This is life and we all need to learn to be adults and accept change, thankgod for animals cause I dont like humans much. So dont let anyone get to you- You are fine!

thanx & please excuse my "typo" in last entry. 2nd line should read:

"born again panel opening!"

B

It curious how one simple and sincere question got everyone’s drawers in an uproar. I have read all the posts people have responded with since the very beginning, and simply put its tiring.
I want to make myself clear on this next point; this “kitchen” is anything but to hot for me. As the “POSTER” I asked a question, one that took off and has gone back and forth for months, taking up space on this forum for no other reason that people can’t let things go. I have not been sitting around letting other people do my dirty work by replying for me, I have been reading, reading, reading and driving! Between college life, driving home to see my family, along with my B&G, and seeing my girlfriend, life has been anything but stagnate for me over the last few months. Nothing on this forum could make me run away with my tail between my legs, I think you forget but debating your point/views is what college class is all about.
Alhee made me laugh with their post.
“What REALLY gets me upset, is BOTH a young person thinking that he is able to make a long-term commitment to owning any macaw”.
Wow…if I was told to summarize that in one word I think it would be “ignorance”. Just because I am a young person does not mean that I can not properly take care of a macaw. That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read, and believe me I have read more than most and less than few.
Are you suggesting that because I am young, I can not properly take care of an animal, but I can go to war? Are you suggesting that all the macaws as well as other birds that are up for adoption are due to the fact that a young person has tried to take care of them? Because I think that there are a lot of OLDER persons that do not know how to take care of macaws-hence why there are so many of them up for adoption. Because there are idiots that go to pet stores and see a bird and buy it-it is called an IMPULSE buy. Just to clarify, an impulse buy is when someone buys something without any information, no research, and purchased within 24-48 hours. I maybe young, but I am anything but dumb or irresponsible.
Barb or the CRAZY OLD BIRD LADY as she is sometimes referred to has a gorgeous Scarlet macaw named Sissy, Sissy is getting up there in age and does not like people at all (with exception to her and her husband), and she is not a fan of birds either. Since I have been going over to Barbs this bird has wanted to take off my finger for ages, but just last week she stepped up on me and allowed me to touch her head-again I have no idea of what I’m doing and I am to young to take care of a bird.
It is curious that you don’t trust me with a macaw, but in May I will graduate with a degree in Zoology, and will retain a position at one of the nations leading zoological facilities. They will entrust me with endangered species, and will be expected to uphold the position with dignity and respect, but you think a macaw is to much for me-interesting.
I have three other birds and all of them seem to be doing fine in my care, I would even wager that my African Grey is one of the sweetest greys on God’s green earth. Maybe this is due to dumb luck or simply I do know/have the ability to take care of and nurture a bird. I am always searching for answers and learning more, and I will never get to the level of knowing everything but you have to try, don’t you?
When it comes down to the hybrid talk, as Barb has already stated I have decided to go with a wonderful Blue and Gold macaw. I will have a hybrid one day, whether it is rehomed or bought as a baby from Barb has yet to be seen; however, when it topic arises about Barb being unethical I say bullshit. She has been nothing but kind, sweet, and informative. She hasn’t for a second pushed anything on me, and the price that she charges for her birds are her choice, and none of yours. She is honest and true to her birds and she deserves and honest price for them. I do not have a problem with her prices because they are the same everywhere, and even if she charged more for her birds I would still buy from her because I know what stock they are coming from and the love they will get from her and her husband. In closing I would like to say thank you to all of you that have made informative posts and I look forward to reading more in the future. Adios for now, I’m sure this post will be met in a vigorous and interesting manner.
Sincerely yours,
Dennis

Why won't you let me correct my "typo" ?????

Is the word "panel" banned??? "poop", I see isn't. Can I substitute "born again rectal opening" ???

Or abbreviate....."born again @" ???

B

I was the first person to actually dialogue with olboy at length about the pros & cons of companion hybrid macaws, first on the thread, and then in a private message. I then deleted my post because I knew the topic would generate controversy, (it always has), and really dont have the energy, or desire, to banter on and on about the subject. The truth of the matter is there are plenty of hybrid macaws around, they are fairly popular as pets, and they are not going to go away now or in the future. I do NOT advocate breeding them. That is an individual choice and/or preference. For those that dont care for them, here is the good news for you; the further out you hybridize, in general, fertility & productivity tends to drop. I know of no breeder that is making a killing on the sale of any mixed species macaws. I have been at this game for a number of years, (6-1/2 total now,) and know quite a few others doing it, also. Before that, I used to gravely dislike hybrids, because of their generally indeterminate temperments, AND, I didn't find them particularly attactive, and still dont think most of them are. Since I got into selective color breeding, I have had fairly low productivity, but, with some remarkedly beautiful offspring as the reward. So far, I have kept them all. Breeding multiple generation hybrid macaws tends to be an expensive hobby, with a very high attrition rate among hybrid breeders, usually dropping out after a couple of years because it simply does not pay for itself. Please dont try and pick an argument with me. I am not trying to sway anyone to my point of view. You are entitled to yours, and I respect that. I do not need your approval. This is strictly a personal preference for me. AND, for those dont know, Scarlet macaws are my favorite of all!

I'm going to cross-post on two "threads" (or whatever they're called) here. IMO this is the kind of info that belongs here....rather than the bird world's version of the Jerry Springer Show.

I & others....pure species bird people & hybridizers alike have found this site absolutely mesmerizing:

http://www.cityparrots.org

Please check out this site. Go to GALLERY, then CUMBRIA UK 2005, pg 2 to see pix of hybrid Macaws living free in the wild. These hybrids weren't released....they were born there from pure species parents who just happened to "hook up". You can see that there are plenty of pure species too. They seem to get along just fine! It's us.....the most "intelligent" species on the planet, that can't seem to make nice.

Also, please look at the home pg that talks about the natural hybridizing going on between Alexandrines & IRN's in the Netherland's (they're like the feral Quakers over here). Read something about Canaries & Siskins somewhere too.

The whole site is amazing.....IMO......& I would hope you find it of interest as well. If not, that's what the delete button is for.

Barb

PS:
many-feathers...you've ruined my "image" !! I'm supposed to be unethical & greedy & getting rich running some kind of a hybrid Macaw puppy mill here!!

caraparrots wrote:http://www.cityparrots.org

Please check out this site. Go to GALLERY, then CUMBRIA UK 2005, pg 2 to see pix of hybrid Macaws living free in the wild. These hybrids weren't released....they were born there from pure species parents who just happened to "hook up". You can see that there are plenty of pure species too. They seem to get along just fine! It's us.....the most "intelligent" species on the planet, that can't seem to make nice.

Also, please look at the home pg that talks about the natural hybridizing going on between Alexandrines & IRN's in the Netherland's (they're like the feral Quakers over here). Read something about Canaries & Siskins somewhere too.

Good points there.... but at the same time, one can contradict that and say that they are not living in their NATURAL habitat, where there are PLENTY of mates to choose from (so to speak), thus having limited amounts of mates to choose from they are hybridizing. OR, the possibility that some of these birds were once captive bred, thus they don't necessarily KNOW to pick the RIGHT mate... or for the fact that maybe the hybrids were captive born then became wild?

Same can be said for the ringnecks... as I don't believe they are native to the Netherlands.

Heck, we can even point out the Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill (i.e. San Fransisco). The flock started off as Cherry Headed Conures, which over time they bred, and captive cherry heads were let loose. There was at one point in time a blue crown conure (actually two) in the flock, however they never hybridized..... that was, until a female mitred joined the flock... The flock is thus now full of a bunch of inbreds, and hybrids... being first, second, third and so on generations... and do to this inbreeding and hybridization we are seeing more and more red on some of the offspring... and even yellow colors as well!







http://www.markbittner.net/parrot_pages ... rrots.html
http://mickaboo.org/wildparrots.html

Because they are not in their natural habitat, they are hybridizing. Why they didn't hybridize with a blue crown but they did with a mitred I dont know!


Through all of this however, there is supposedly one species of rosella that scientists do believe came about between the hybridization of two rosella species... and over a period of time became it's OWN species. Hard to say...
http://www.birds.org.au/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rosellas
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa? ... hat&P=4913
http://www.philipmaher.com/2001to2002.html
http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/Samp ... rrots.html


So yes, your arguement about hybrids occuring naturally is viable... however at the same time, it's only viable when speaking of birds in their NATURAL habitat... not birds who live in a habitat that is unnatural to that species... Heck, there is even a wild pair of cockatoos in New Zealand that paired up and created offspring! A person goes in, removes the chicks, finishes handraising them, then sells them to the public.

You guy might try [url]www.parrotchatter.com[/url] and see what you think

WingedVictory, does parrotchatter address the topic of hybrid macaws?