upatsix.com - Your Source For Pet Bird Information

alhee wrote:It does get fairly unethical when all sorts of fancy names get stuck onto the hybrids, which only glamorizes the price of the birds, which for all practical purposes, are MUTTS. Now, like in all things, there are good ones and bad ones.
What REALLY gets me upset, is BOTH a young person thinking that he is able to make a long-term commitment to owning any macaw, and the person who is willing to take the money and run.

Very well stated, direct and to the point, and kindly put, too! All of these fancy made-up names to sell hybrids for a lot of money, is pretty poor business tactics & indicates some rather serious lack of integrity, too, IMO.

You are so very accurate about the commitment issue! I commend you for addressing it and the lack of breeder/seller ethics, as well

Here is some info I found on the web, that I believe sincere & honest bird loving vendors should always go over in depth with potential customers before allowing them to buy a bird:

Before considering owning a parrot you need to understand how difficult they can be
• Birds are very loud
• Birds are very messy
• Birds demand tons of attention
• Birds bite - some more than others
• Birds are equivalent to having a 2 year old child for a very long time
• Birds can live to be 20-80 years old
• Birds are expensive to keep - food, cages, toys, vet care
• Birds can resort to plucking out their own feathers if stressed
• Birds are generally not good with small children
There are thousands of parrots being given up for adoption every year. some because of behavior problems but most because people just get tired of caring for them. New babies arrive, new jobs, moving, new marriage are just some of the reasons people give up their birds.

Our local Bird store( I worked for) gives a book and makes people come visit and work with them to see if she actually wants to go on with the sale- No one can just come in and buy- and when you do You sign a contract of knowledge- warnings ect that is 10 pages long. Im considering adopting out a senegal- and I plan to do the same.

ljhassell wrote:Thats why we have taken in what we have- they have a home, we will not breed and we stand by what we have made family!

God Bless You, L.J.!

I love my birds dearly, but fear for their future if something happens to me. I have a sanctuary specified in my will for them to go to, and a good percentage of the proceeds from my estate to go into a trust fund to care for them. I swore years ago that I would never breed after seeing the sad fate of many macaws and other long lived large parrots. It brings tears to my eyes. Most of my fids came to me as adults. I do not refer to them as rescues or adoptions ever. To me, "rescue" is a dirty word. They are all here because they are loved, and not because I blame anyone else for failing to be able to care for them. I do not and will not buy babies, or support the baby market in any way. I see all the baby pushing as something in league with child prostitution. Excuse the colorful analogy, but thats the best way I am able to describe it.

Mary Xmas wrote:... To me, "rescue" is a dirty word. They are all here because they are loved, and not because I blame anyone else for failing to be able to care for them...

You've lost me here. Would you explain?

Paca

ParrontPlus wrote: You've lost me here. Would you explain? Paca

I have noticed that the word "rescue" is severely abused. People will buy a bird because they want it, and then post somewhere that they "rescued" it. You will see over and over again that people are now using the word "rescue" for a purchase, and demean the former owner's care of that bird and boast about their own care of the bird. The word "rescue" somehow no longer refers to the act of actually rescuing a bird that would most likely not otherwise survive and providing sanctuary for it. I hope I'm not the only one noticing the change in the use of the word, and the extended meaning that is somehow attributed for what appears to be "self centered justification for aquiring a bird that is not being put into permanent sanctuary care. I hope this makes sense regarding my sentiments about this particular trend. My birds are not rescues. They are very wanted family members.

Considering the problems captive birds have, this seems really insignificant to me, so I hope I'm simply overlooking the meaning this has for you -- and for needy birds. I've bought a bird who was living in what I considered dangerous circumstances. I loved her and grieved her fiercely when she died, possibly from exposure she suffered before I bought her. I could care less whether she was a "rescue" by anyone's definition, but I am forever grateful for the fluke circumstances in which I met her. I would hate to think that your aversion to the term would close anyone's eyes to the needs of birds who are not being adequately cared for. It is too easy to turn our backs, too hard to make the effort to help. Please don't give anyone an excuse to simply walk away.

Paca

ParrontPlus wrote: I could care less whether she was a "rescue" by anyone's definition, but I am forever grateful for the fluke circumstances in which I met her. I would hate to think that your aversion to the term would close anyone's eyes to the needs of birds who are not being adequately cared for. It is too easy to turn our backs, too hard to make the effort to help. Please don't give anyone an excuse to simply walk away. Paca

No, no, no, no, no! What you are sharing, is by all means most loving and honorable. I just have noticed in the past couple years that everyone is suddenly jumping on the "rescue" bandwagon for any kind of purchase, no matter where or from who. It is really hard to communicate online and get the communication across because too much is missing in the translation (no voice intonations, body language, or other indicators to add support or help clarify the message.) I am certain that I am not fingering everyone who made a purchase of a bird from what may have been a less than desirable situation for the bird. I have just seen one too many references to "rescue" when there is no rescue of any sort actually involved. It has become a cliché word that in many instances no longer means what it once did. You quite clearly cared deeply and did buy/remove a bird from a compromising environment. I by no means am referencing this type of situation. I am just saying that no matter if any of my own bird's former situations were what I could consider "less than optimal" that I do not personally ever refer to any of mine as "rescues" because I love them.

"You quite clearly cared deeply and did buy/remove a bird from a compromising environment"


We have done this many times- paying what the people wanted, just to get them out of their hands. Yes, others have been bought, due to changes people were going through and we couldnt say we dont want to help, or see this bird stay happy and safe. i do consider some rescues, because if we hadnt stepped in someone eles may have not, because of the conditions and prices. Money is bottom line for everything and I for one HATE it, to us its whats best for the animal. to me People come last- the put their own needs and wants above everything and thats wrong. We live in the now- all our flock is our family, we dont think where they came from, we think where they are now, thats what counts!

Mary Xmas wrote: Most of my fids came to me as adults. I do not refer to them as rescues or adoptions ever. To me, "rescue" is a dirty word. They are all here because they are loved, and not because I blame anyone else for failing to be able to care for them. I do not and will not buy babies, or support the baby market in any way. I see all the baby pushing as something in league with child prostitution. Excuse the colorful analogy, but thats the best way I am able to describe it.

Ive bought 2 babies, just because I feel in love and wanted them family, and where I got them from I highly agree with their ethic! Not any breeder could ever do this just for money- every cent they make- goes right back into the birds- never known of anyone to turn a profit- to make it a money making hand over fist, its impossible. Yes, we have bought birds once we saw what they were living in- eating, ect and we as humans wanted to provide them with better surroundings and understanding and felt sorry that they ended up in situations with uncaring- unknowledgeable people. I will never buy a bird for what they can do for me- preform ect.- but what I can do for them.

darlene wrote:

Breeders are going to mess with nature regardless of what anyone has to say or disagree with.

Yes but if no one will buy the hybrids the breeders will put the birds together with their own kind. Its all in the money!

The only problem with that is that Macaws mate for life. I have been told that it can be quite difficult to split up a pair when they are bonded....

that is true! If you love and want to stay with your mate- do you want someone to rip you apart? I think this whole thing is BS

This is my summary of "the big picture".

The most important statement made so far in this discussion is that macaws mate for life, and the MOST CRUEL action that we can take is to break up a pair, either in our aviaries (probably impossible) or to send one bird away. We all can agree that macaws "are not just birds." They have intelligence, loyalty, memory, and emotions.
So, we should continue to educate new hobbyists that after they start with their first bird, they need to continue that same species/variety if they will be adding a second bird. They should not choose a collection of different species or varieties until they have already made compatible matches.

The hybrids are already here, and they do have their own value. We cannot legislate or prohibit the production of hybrids. And in the long run, this might very well be a positive situation. (1. Please don't attack me for saying that genetic purity might not be that important. 2. But widespread mongrelization is equally undesirable. 3. It is also important to maintain a viable gene pool of the separate species.)

If we can show that there is a shortage of females of a threatened species, and I can suspect that this is true as with all birds, then these females, especially, should NEVER be allowed to bond with another specie or hybrid.

Many of us have been actively educating, educating, educating on this issue for quite a few years. Let's keep going strong! It's worth the effort.

Paca

Come on'- Quit- you harp, bash- and pick and it is out there- help instead of flying insults would you! It will NEVER change- there is always going to be hybrids, pure was once upon a time- as life evolves so do breeds and mixes! NO such thing as a purebreed anymore.

I'm going to be contradicting here, but it's becoming a proven fact that parrots DON'T mate for life... they actually do have "divorces" and males DO fight over females.... even lone males will battle an already mated male for his female. On top of that, if one looses a mate they WILL find another one.

It's seen more frequently in the medium to smaller parrots.... however I wouldn't doubt that it happens in the larger parrots to!

Indeed though, they are not "just birds"...