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Greetings.
We have completed construction of an indoor aviary, 6'x30"x7' tall. We figure we can stock it with about 20 finches, societies and spices, and our 2 lone zebra cocks. However, the price of even these relatively inexpensive species makes it cost prohibitive to purchase sufficient birds so the they don't look lost in so much space. Thus, we would like to breed a few of our own, just to populate the aviary, then remove nesting materials and prohibit further reproductive activity.

We purchased a pair of society finches and a pair of spice finches on Saturday. Naturally telling males from females is nearly impossible in a petstore setting. (I have been unable to locate any private breeders in our area.) Although some of the spice finches were clearly singing, they flew in every direction when the salesperson put her hand into the cage and so we ended up with 2 random birds rather than those we had preselected. We did get the 2 societies we had chosen.

It appears that the 2 societies are both male. They are both singing. I don't know about the spices. If they turn out to be female, though, can these species interbreed? Will they do so under normal circumstances? Any hints on how to sex the spice finches, or how to sex either species in a petstore setting, with a cage containing at least 20 birds in a room full of noisy budgies? If a spice finch is separated from the rest of the flock, will he begin to sing if he is male?

At the moment, the 4 new birds are in a 30" x 20" cage while in quarantine. I plan to introduce them into the aviary at the same time as the 2 zebra cocks in several weeks. Would they be apt to nest in the smaller cage provided nesting materials? Would the spices, if they are male and female, be apt to nest in the presence of the societies?

Update on Cloud, the arthritic white zebra hen. She died at last, though she hung on for several weeks. She continued eating until the day of her death, so I'm hopeful that she didn't suffer much.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Ann

1. If you want to be certain, the best bet would be to stay with the different colors of zebras. Your zebra males are going to mess up your society breedings if you are able to get society hens, and those hybrid babies are going to be a waste of time and space.

2. Finding society hens in a pet shop situation might be difficult. I suspect that mostly spare males are released to pet shops. However, in the long run, raising societies might be a good investment.

3. I am surprised that the spices in the pet shop were actively singing, in which case, if you have any males, they should be singing also. Spice hens will not nest as readily as societies, but fertile hybrid babies are possible.

I agree with alhee.....especially about the difficulty of actually breeding Spice finches and the problems the Zebras will cause.

If you want to keep the zebras and Spice finches, I'd leave them in the holding cage and set the societies up for breeding in the aviary. Once you're done with breeding remove the nests and add the Zebras and Spice finches.

I've often said that Societies are my favorite finches........and I've raised several species. They have such a wonderful personality and they seem to interact with their caretakers much more than other finches do. By that I mean that you'll pick up on their chirps and body language whenever they're wanting bath water, fresh food, there are newly hatched chicks in the nest, etc.
The only other finch (that I owned) that had as much personality was the Cutthroat.

Where are you located? Surely there are bird shows or other breeders you can connect with to add other colors and especially some Crested!

Thanks for your thoughts.

I live in the middle of Nowhere, Maine, which is north of Rural, Maine. I've never heard of a bird show in the state. I've been watching the statewide weekly classified magazine, which is where everybody advertises everything, and have found no finches. No postings on pet shop bulletin boards, and no internet searches have turned up any finch people.

So you're suggesting if I want to fill my aviary I should get a couple of zebra hens for my 2 males? We were hoping to switch to societies because the zebras can be so nasty to each other, and we like the greater variability of the societies so we can tell individual birds apart. If we went with zebras, could I still put the 2 new society males and the pair of spices in with the zebras? Even if they wouldn't breed, would it necessarily stop the zebras? I've been watching the second spice finch and have still seen no evidence of masculinity, though the other continues to sing.

I don't really care if the spices and societies interbreed. I have no intention of selling the offspring or breeding a second generation. These birds are just pets. They don't need a pedigree - just to be healthy and happy.

There is one other possibility. I am keeping a close eye on the e-bulletin board at the university where I work. A lot of animals are dumped this time of year by students leaving for the summer. It's very sad. I could fill my house with free cats, dogs, lizards, fish, rabbits, hamsters, and guinea pigs, but very few birds.

Thanks again. I always appreciate the advise given here by more knowledgable people.

Ann

LOL...........I really like your description of your location!

Re: the Zebras...........no, I wasn't suggesting getting Zebra hens!!
I was suggesting keeping them out of the aviary so they wouldn't bother the Societies while they breed. You may not have any problems with the Zebra males bothering the Societies...........if you end up with a pair of Societies. You could put them all together and if you see problems, pull the Zebs out. You won't know if they're mating with other females, but you'll know if they're harrassing other pairs and taking over nests.

Like you, I would build up the number of Societies and if the the Spice finches also breed it would be great. I can understand your situation and the fact you're willing to give any hybrids a forever home, but I'd still search for female Societies simply because there's no guarantee the Societies/ Spice/Zebs 'will' breed.

It's nearly impossible to sex the birds while in a pet shop since the birds are under stressful conditions. Birds that don't sing aren't always females........just males that are too scared to sing! Spice finches are sexed the same way......only the males sing.
Another thing to watch for in sexing both Soc/Spice: two males together often result in one not singing due to intimidation by the dominate male. I always separated each bird from the group and if there was no singing after a couple of days I banded it as a female. I was never proved wrong.

You might also try talking to the pet shop owner/manager and see if they'll allow exchanges of the birds. I've often bought 6 birds of one species and the shop would let me exchange half until I found some females. Of course, there may be NO females in his shop!

Since you're so isolated, shipping would be your only alternative but that may be financially prohibitive.
I suggest contacting the groups below and see if they can help.

MAINE

Greater Maine Bird Club. Leigh Hallett, 40A Elm St., Newport 04953, (207) 368-1001.
Maine State Caged Bird Society. Cheryl Durgan, pres., P.O. Box 5658, Augusta 04332-5658; (207) 371-2727, durgan@clinic.net.

I think that I was the one who suggested getting zebra hens as the easiest way to fill your aviary, but that is definitely Plan B, in the event that you can't get female societies, and you want to get started. Personally, I waited 2 years to get a society hen, and I did this by getting the last 5 birds of a breeder's sell-out . It's so hard to find what you want when you want it !

The fact that the spices are singing so freely ( one of yours, and the others at the shop) makes me suspect that they are already society hybrids ! Take a look of pictures of the various subspecies: Some of the subspecies have dull brown scalings just along the sides, rather than the clear black and white breast markings, and the dull ones look a lot like the "self" (not pied) societies, although their posture is a bit more bold and upright.

Actually, you could just put all your birds together, and then remove whatever is not being a good neighbor, if necessary. If the spice and societies pile up in a nest, you will lessen your chances of babies surviving.
Then, the other risk is getting zebra hybrids, which I personally don't care for. But what you do is your business, and no harm is done, anyway.