upatsix.com - Your Source For Pet Bird Information

Just because she has laid an egg doesn't mean you have to raise cockatoos. Cockatoos need forever homes. So sad.

I agree, I couldnt bare to sell, give up any of our birds.

suebb wrote:Just because she has laid an egg doesn't mean you have to raise cockatoos. Cockatoos need forever homes. So sad.

I agree, Suebb. Darlene's been advertising this 'too for sale for 2 months, so I don't think you're going to talk her out of it. Here is a little more information on the bird:

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:22 am hi everyone im new here, my name is darlene and i live in north fla. ... sounds like you have a female that wants to breed with you , as your wife said lay eggs with you . i have a umbrella female now that is going thru the change , she chases my husband, my bloodhound, my other birds , i have to lock everyone up when she wants out.and im kinda in the same pickel your in here... i have another cockatoo that wants to play with her , oh my god you would think that luna was going to kill sally , she screams and runs away. so anyho i too am learning what to do with these female toos. i just dont want my u2 to get egg bound, any suggestions anyone . except to get her a male .

But as responsible owners we must learn and help birds through this process, not toss them aside.

Chronic egg laying is a very common problem in cockatiels, lovebirds, and budgies; and is seen in other species of pet birds including macaws, cockatoos, amazons, and African greys. This problem can begin in your bird as early as nine months or as late as several years of age. The most common age range is from one to three years.

The process of producing and laying an egg is an incredible feat of nature. A bird utilizes various proteins and minerals to build a container that can sustain a life for several days and up to several weeks. Within this container all of the necessary functions of life are carried out - eating, drinking, sleeping, waste disposal, breathing, growth and development, and so on. This is amazing to say the least!

The process of producing and laying an egg is stimulated by many factors. Day length, food availability, mate behavior, rainfall, competition for nesting sites, and many other factors can stimulate hens to lay an egg. It is not necessary that an egg be fertilized before it can be lain. In fact, a mate does not even need to be present for a female to lay eggs.

The shell of an egg is made primarily of calcium. The calcium comes from calcium stores within the bird's body. The bones and muscles provide nearly all of the calcium required to shell an egg. The calcium that is lost in forming the shell needs to be replaced so the body can continue to function properly. Calcium is primarily needed for muscle contractions and building strong bones. In the case of chronic egg laying, calcium stores are depleted and the body is unable to function properly. The condition is known as hypocalcemia. The most common problem in egg laying females associated with hypocalcemia is egg binding. With calcium at a low level the uterine muscles are unable to contract and push the egg out. Hypocalcemia can also cause seizure-like activity and brittle bones, which can be easily fractured.

During the laying cycle birds will begin holding their droppings for an extended period of time. This behavior is related to keeping the nest clean and free of poop. Often the bird will release large, loose, foul smelling, and discolored droppings. The odor is due to the presence of bacteria and yeast in the droppings. It is important to prevent excessive egg laying, since it can lead to many health problems. The most important factor in preventing health-related problems is nutrition. It is vital to be sure that your bird is on a complete and balanced diet. No diet is better or more complete than a formulated or pelleted diet. Pellets offer all essential nutrients in the correct ratios. Seeds are very inadequate in preventing problems related to excessive egg laying. Seeds have no calcium, almost no phosphorous, no vitamin A, and no vitamin D; all of which are essential in calcium absorption and utilization. Seeds are also deficient in essential amino acids (protein) and are unable to replace the protein lost in forming the inside of the egg (the yolk, albumin, and fetal membranes).

The first step in treating chronic egg laying is to put your bird on a complete diet. A bird that is on an balanced diet is in little danger of the health problems associated with chronic egg laying. The next step is to have your bird examined by an avian veterinarian for a complete work up, including exam, blood work, cultures, and all necessary treatments. Your veterinarian will be looking for bacterial and yeast infections related to holding in the poops, signs of poor nutrition and stress, and clinical signs of calcium deficiency. The next step is to decrease the amount of light your bird receives during the day. You want to provide them with a maximum of 10 hours of light per day. This will help prevent hormone release that leads to egg production.

Birds will lay one egg every other day with an average total number of up to 5 or 6 eggs. When your bird does lay an egg, you should leave it in the cage. If you remove it you will stimulate production of more eggs.

Finally, you should remove anything that may be stimulating breeding behavior. Dark, confining spaces such as shoeboxes, bags, cabinets and other places can serve as a nest. Disallow association with such places. Don't stroke your bird on the back, especially during her breeding period. Leave the grates on the bottom of the cage to give an unsuitable place to lay and sit on eggs. On rare occasions, females will chose a favorite toy or perch for masturbating. This item should be removed it your bird exhibits this behavior. Other changes may need to be made depending on your bird's environment and play habits.

A mate is not a solution for the chronic egg layer. Mates will only perpetuate the problem, not solve it. Your bird may become less concerned about you, bond to the other bird, want to reproduce, and you will lose the nice pet you have always had.

We, as responsible owners, should work to prevent excessive egg laying. Prevention can be accomplished by controlling these stimuli and providing balanced nutrition to our pet birds, which is critical in reducing the risk of secondary disease associated with chronic egg laying.

In summary, improve the diet, decrease the photo period, leave the eggs in the cage, remove any breeding stimulation that may be contributing to the problem, and see your avian veterinarian for a physical exam, diagnostics, and treatments.



Chronic Egg Laying

I agree, Suebb. Darlene's been advertising this 'too for sale for 2 months, so I don't think you're going to talk her out of it. Here is a little more information on the bird:

I've never had female 'too, but breeding season doesn't last forever, right? I've also heard about replacing eggs with fakes so they get the nesting urge out of their systems? She might need some foods with a good calcium content, too. Wouldn't this be a possibility for any female - not just 'toos?

ljhassell wrote:But as responsible owners we must learn and help birds through this process, not toss them aside.....


Chronic Egg Laying

Wow, impressive response. Thank you! Mine was definitely simplistic.

Setting up to breed isnt always best for them. I wish her and you best of luck, I couldnt part with any of ours birds. Sorry to see another Cockatoo in need.

Hi...I'm not going to try to talk you out of selling your bird...usually when someone has this thought...it's normally for the bird's best interest..
I do hope that you rethink the breeding possiblities and would possibly sell her as a pet. She sounds lovely and many cockatoos get killed in the breeding process...Also, I have 8 rehomed cockatoos...although, none so far have ever laid eggs...there are many reasons that a female will go into this cycle...diet, of course, is very important...and that doesn't sound like your problem at all....Sometimes too long of daylight/ artificial light periods will stimulate this cycle...they need a good period of solid darkness(the canopies in the wild provide this).. I always hate to see birds with a price tag on their heads..in a chat room...I believe there is a classified section in this forum that Damian has provided for these instances...The article that was posted here was a really good one...have you had her vet checked to make sure that her calcium level is ok...?? That's is so important...especially, if she is a chronic layer....Good luck to you and most of all...good luck to Sally....

Hi There,

Is it Darlene? Your U2 sounds absolutely wonderful....you're very lucky. If it isn't working out for some reason then its probably in the best interest of your bird to rehome it but I want to be sure that you know that egg laying is just part of her being a girlie bird....it happens. It in no way means that she is wanting to breed or should be in a breeding program...and please know there are absolutely NO guarantees for a gentle male U2 that is wanting to breed and is in an enclosure with a hen. If you would like to keep her...she's still a wonderful pet and all you need do is change the environment some and accept her for what she is...a U2 hen. The diet you listed if changed could be a start to help stop egg laying....warm oatmeal for example could be an egg laying stimulant. And if she's been handled incorrectly in a way that is stimulating her sexually (excessive cuddling, stroking)...that can also easily be changed. So..you do have a choice and the means if you want to keep this girl.

I see you are also considering a Vos hen. These birds can be chronic egg layers as well so regardless of which bird you have....it is likely some changes should be made otherwise you'll end up rehoming that bird too. If you sell this bird you may well be jumping into another fire.

Also....I have worked in parrot welfare (rehome, rescue, foster, sanctuary, education) for about 9 yrs now. Currently we have about 150 cockatoos...most of which are U2's...both males and females. Every other parrot welfare I talk or hear about also say that the largest part of their residents are cockatoos. I doubt any breeder would pay your price anyway but I hope you'll at least reconsider ever putting her into a breeding situation. It sounds like she's been a good pet to you.....its time to treat her fairly and not as an investment.

Shauna

breeding situations are not the answer- most that go to sanctuaries or breeding programs- and mutilated. Wouldnt be the answer for me.

Hi Darlene,

Its hard sometimes when we want to do the best thing and we aren't sure what that is. I'm glad you posted. Could a difference in her diet, environment and weight gain cause her to lay an egg? you betcha! Its not at all uncommon for hens who have not been not so good situations to lay an egg once they are feeling better and comfortable about things...they life has improved!

Of all the cockatoos....U2's may be the most prone to excessive egg laying. Its not that they need a breeding situation but that they are comfortable in their environment and 99% of the time that environment also needs some changing. One change is cuddling......I know I love it too! BUT its not fair to the bird. Allopreening is one thing. Something that birds do for each other...preen head and neck feathers. Stroking however like our hands would when we stroke them and cuddling is very sexual for a bird. If you could see a cockatoo hen excite a male......she takes her beak and draws it down his body...again and again...with what I assume is some pressure. This resembles our hand strokes. The male does the same thing back. For us......we tend to stroke...most all of us have had dogs and/cats that are fine with stroking and that's how most of us interact with our pets. Also not everyone know that stroking was sexually stimulating for birds either...so it happens.

Instead of cuddling find new ways to interact. It may be taking walkabouts through the house, helping you with household chores (yea right...but hey..she'll have fun). It would be really good if she can safely go outside...perhaps a cage? an aviary? or other way. Give her foraging opportunities, plenty of toys to chew and praise her when she does....the not to worry beads are great for some birds. Just pony beads threaded onto a shoestring. Sing, chat, play games. Teach her things such as turn around, wave....look into clicker training the birds love it! And as far as touching.....everything is off limits except feet and top of her head...to preen. Anything else can be stimulating. If when you approach her she starts to pant...immediately turn around...listen for the panting to stop...count to 10 and turn back around. Or if she's in your lap, on your knee and your watching TV, preening her head....and she starts to pant..stop what you are doing ...without all attention. If need be gently hold her in your hand and put your hand down towards the floor. Again wait for panting to stop ...count to 10 and bring her back to lap.

The egg laying...it may not happen again if you make some changes but if it does call your vet. You could give her a little extra calcium but she should only need it for a few days. If you know she's with egg....she could also use a little xtra Ca then as well.

I envy that you got to help your mom raise cockatoos...that must have been a wonderful experience! Even so there has been so much more learned...even in just the last 5 yrs. That's something I really enjoy about these guys is that they are a continuing learning experience...not just them but their diet, medical insights/advances, behavior.

If I can help just give me a holler....I'd be glad to help you work this out. You have a sweet girl and it sounds like she has a good home. You can find me at the yahoo groups Feedingfeathers list or the better e-mail right now for me is shauna@thegabrielfoundation.org

Shauna

Shauna...
Thanks so much for your great post...It's always good to be reminded of how much there is to know about these wonderful birds...
Darlene....try some of these changes...and let us know...good luck..

Darlene, you sound like you are feeling better about Sally. That is so great. Shauna and Cyndie are great people to have backing you up. This is absolutely a great place for support.

Ahhh thanks Sue....Shauna is the true support...I don't think a day goes by that I don't think....you need to ask Shauna.....I know a lot of folks here don't know us...but like you....we've been around a good while...and the good thing about Tooville is...that everyone is here to learn...no one knows it all...and we know that more than anyone...I learn something each day from my guys...and also need to be reminded about a lot of things...I am so glad that Sally is going to stay with her family..That is truly a happy ending.....or beginning....

Hi Darlene,

You are very welcome....its a pleasure to meet someone who cares.

When she pants under her toys (funny girl.....) are you able to peek at her from somewhere that she can't see you to know if its actually the toys or if its having you in the proximity? If it is the toys.....then I would take them off of the stand....they should only have to be gone a short time. Maybe you could replace them with something else? What about some not to worry beads? You can buy pony beads at a craft store or Walmart and string the beads on a shoelace...putting some knots in. I have yet to meet a bird that doesn't enjoy those.

Something else I would do is to remove any papers from the top of her grate. Tearing paper is a nesty activity. If she's pulling it up from the tray under the grate however....not much you can do short of a different cage.

I'm an old time upatsixer but I'm not often here anymore. So again...if you like feel free to e-mail me.

hugs,
Shauna