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Hello there! First time poster. I have a cockatiel who's balding under his wings. I am desperate for help. I've done a write-up so someone can read his entire history, in hope of getting some help. We only have two avian vets in the area and I'm starting to lose faith in the one he's been going to.

Basics: Mateo is a male (I’m guessing by his behavior) lutino cockatiel. He was born about May of 2004, so as of this writing, he’s about 4.5 years old. He was hand-fed and came to me tame. He was bought from a local pet store in August of 2004.

Home life: Mateo lives in a large cage by himself in our livingroom. He has many toys, things to chew on and a lot of room to move about in his cage. He’s out with us at least one hour a day (often more). He showers with me a couple of times per week.

Mateo lives in the livingroom next to a cage housing my other four birds – one English budgie and three “American” parakeets. Mateo does not like the parakeets as one in particular (Oliver) antagonizes him. He does not have out of the cage time with the keets.

History: Mateo does not have a history of any real problems. For the first two years of his life, he’d have a night fright about every four months, usually causing some serious damage to some blood feathers. After I moved into my house in the summer of 2006, he does not have any night frights. He has gotten spooked when the keets have one, but has not had one on his own for over two years now.

Food/diet: I just recently got Mateo off Kaytee Exact Rainbow Cockatiel pellets, as they had ethoxyquin in them, a potentially harmful preservative. Mateo ate those for nearly four years. He’s currently on Harrison’s High Potency Fine (seems to like these) pellets along with some Roudybush Daily Maintenance pellets, TOP Organic Pellets (which he doesn’t seem to like – too big) and Laber’s Parakeet. He also gets Lafeber’s Nutriberries, Lafeber’s Avicakes, some seed and water from our tap. He does not get any fresh fruits or veggies (doesn’t seem to like them), but will eat eggs, bread and pasta. He has never been on any supplements or vitamins until now.

Current treatments: AviX Soother Plus Cream under the pits for his problem and AviX Sunshine Factor daily orally.

I first noticed Mateo’s wing pits balding about August of 2008. I noticed them when he was flying across the room. I took him to see the vet on August 8th, 2008. He’s been to the vet three times.

1st visit: Weight 98 grams. Tested for giardia – negative. Blood test run, general check up. Vet said he looked to be in good shape.

2nd visit: Weight 94 grams. Did not test for giardia, but put him on ronidazole. Did not help.

3rd visit: Weight 86 grams. Did a fecal test again. Negative for giardia or any other protozoans. Gave me some AviX Soother Plus cream. 2X daily. Oddly enough, vet didn’t seem concerned with weight loss.

He’s getting the AviX Soother Plus cream on his pits twice a day, and honestly, he looks worse. The area is bald, red, but I can’t tell if it’s irritated or not. He HATES having the cream put on.

I am desperate for help. I don’t know what else to try. There’s another avian vet across the river, should I see him? He’s been tested for giardia twice now, and yeast – what else can be tested for?

His behavior, eating and pooping is all the same. Nothing major in our lives have changed. He’s acting the same way he always has. He just preens the area under his wings hard. He doesn’t really seem itchy or anything.

Please help! I’ve read and read and read and read…I don’t know what else to try.

I'm not a vet or tech but i've had a large tiel flock for 15 years. My vets gave up testing for giardia and just use Ronidazole -- 30 days on it, then off long enough to see if plucking continues. If so, back on it. Some birds need to stay on it forever. Well-known vet Margaret Wissman explains that so many tiels have giardia that chicks ingest it in the nest box and their immune system develops "thinking" it's normal. So no immune response is mounted to fight it.

Since the underwing skin is red, there could be fungal infection. I would definitely try the other vet at this point.

Eggs should be fed to our birds in very limited amounts, and bread and pasta are no substitute for fresh veggies and greens. If you'd like to talk more about improving his diet, nod. He needs good nutrition and extra warmth right now. Take a look at the recent thread by Rosie's Mom about the heat panel she's just given Rosie.

Hoping for your boy to heal.

I'm with BB. Definitely time to cross the river. Weight loss can be indicative of so many problems, and honestly I am suprised the vet did not find it to be an issue. This might be an obvious question, but......is Mateo doing this to himself? I mean, you said he preens the area hard...is it self inflicted? My thinking here is that perhaps the weight loss is due to the real (yet to be diagnosed) problem and that perhaps he is uncomfortable and over preening because of that.

Bluesbird Exotics wrote:I'm not a vet or tech but i've had a large tiel flock for 15 years. My vets gave up testing for giardia and just use Ronidazole -- 30 days on it, then off long enough to see if plucking continues. If so, back on it. Some birds need to stay on it forever. Well-known vet Margaret Wissman explains that so many tiels have giardia that chicks ingest it in the nest box and their immune system develops "thinking" it's normal. So no immune response is mounted to fight it.

Since the underwing skin is red, there could be fungal infection. I would definitely try the other vet at this point.

Eggs should be fed to our birds in very limited amounts, and bread and pasta are no substitute for fresh veggies and greens. If you'd like to talk more about improving his diet, nod. He needs good nutrition and extra warmth right now. Take a look at the recent thread by Rosie's Mom about the heat panel she's just given Rosie.

Hoping for your boy to heal.

First, thank you SO MUCH for responding. I am practically in tears over this.

The underwing seems to have become more red since I started using the AviX Soother Plus cream. I am not going to use it anymore until further notice.

I don't feed him eggs often, maybe a little bit once every two weeks. He's been eating Harrison's Birdy Bread for several days now along with his pellets. I do know his diet should be better, he's just so resistant to healthy stuff.

He does preen the area hard, but I don't see him pulling out feathers. These are what I found last week:



I have an appointment with the avian vet across the river on Friday. I am very surprised the vet didn't seem concerned about the weight loss either. Very surprised.

I have a lorikeet that has been plucking for several years now. I know it's a behaviour issue simply based on when it began. But....even though Jade's chest is completely bare I never see her actually plucking. And this bird's cage is right next to the chair I sit in whenever I sit down during the day. So.....she's waiting til I am not nearby and then doing it. Based on your pic they are coming out shaft and all....looks like it is at least possible that he's doing it to himself. I am not familiar with that particular cream, but if it's not working after this long, I don't think it's going to. Just take note of what the skin looks like now...and see if it worsens, improves, or remains unchanged without the cream from now til you see this new vet. Are you able to take a photo of his pit areas? Not only to share here, but as a reference for yourself so that you can keep up with how it changes? If he wasnt losing weight I would bet this was a behaviour thing, but the weight loss makes me think there is definitely some sort of illness lurking there. Losing 12 grams is significant. Don't fret too much. You are an excellent birdie mum, because you've caught this very early and acted promptly. And that is half the battle! If you get all upset Mateo will pick up on that. Just feel confidant that you will get to the bottom of this with the new vet. And BTW.....your history is excellent! Keeping such maticulous records is going to be a great help to the new vet! Please keep us informed!

Patti In Oz wrote:...If he wasnt losing weight I would bet this was a behaviour thing...

In my experience and from all I've read, tiels are among the last captive Psitticines to pluck themselves for behavioral reasons. Not uncommon for nesty mates to overpreen their partner, but they usually go after the head, face, and back of the neck. Callisto, have you had Mateo tested for Chlamydia? Like giardia, it's sadly common in tiels, especially those from pet stores, and good to rule out for several reasons.

I'm glad Friday isn't too many days away. Can you provide some extra heat for that boy?

Patti In Oz wrote:I have a lorikeet that has been plucking for several years now. I know it's a behaviour issue simply based on when it began. But....even though Jade's chest is completely bare I never see her actually plucking. And this bird's cage is right next to the chair I sit in whenever I sit down during the day. So.....she's waiting til I am not nearby and then doing it. Based on your pic they are coming out shaft and all....looks like it is at least possible that he's doing it to himself. I am not familiar with that particular cream, but if it's not working after this long, I don't think it's going to. Just take note of what the skin looks like now...and see if it worsens, improves, or remains unchanged without the cream from now til you see this new vet. Are you able to take a photo of his pit areas? Not only to share here, but as a reference for yourself so that you can keep up with how it changes? If he wasnt losing weight I would bet this was a behaviour thing, but the weight loss makes me think there is definitely some sort of illness lurking there. Losing 12 grams is significant. Don't fret too much. You are an excellent birdie mum, because you've caught this very early and acted promptly. And that is half the battle! If you get all upset Mateo will pick up on that. Just feel confidant that you will get to the bottom of this with the new vet. And BTW.....your history is excellent! Keeping such maticulous records is going to be a great help to the new vet! Please keep us informed!

The cream is from Harrison's - it's the AviX Soother Plus cream. Can be found here: http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/products/avix.html It's made a mess of his wings. I don't know if I used too much or what, but the area under his wings is more bald and RED now. I used it for three days. I am not using it again.

I kinda wonder if the vet recorded the weights correctly. She's so fast about stuff, I can see her writing it down wrong. He certainly doesn't look or feel any different. I am getting a gram scale tonight and weighing him.

Thank you for your support Patti - it means a lot to me. I did the write-up on him a few days ago. I know this battle isn't over yet. I have this info posted on several bird forums - I'll take all the help I can get. I know being thorough can help get to the bottom of this, so I tried to put in as many details as possible. One thing I didn't mention, because I completely forgot about it until now is this: I did some bird sitting this summer. My fist job was a two cockatiels and a parakeet. Next job was a quaker, a screaming sun conure and parrotlet. Then a cockatiel and parakeet. Then the same quaker and parrotlet again (couldn't handle the sun conure again) None of the birds had any direct contact with Mateo, but they were in close quarters. I had them out at the same time a few times, but to the best of my knowledge, they made no physical contact. The sun conure screamed...a lot. I obviously had no idea what health the birds were in, but they all seemed fine.

This was Mateo in September. The area is much more bald now.

Bluesbird Exotics wrote:

Patti In Oz wrote:...If he wasnt losing weight I would bet this was a behaviour thing...

In my experience and from all I've read, tiels are among the last captive Psitticines to pluck themselves for behavioral reasons. Not uncommon for nesty mates to overpreen their partner, but they usually go after the head, face, and back of the neck. Callisto, have you had Mateo tested for Chlamydia? Like giardia, it's sadly common in tiels, especially those from pet stores, and good to rule out for several reasons.

I'm glad Friday isn't too many days away. Can you provide some extra heat for that boy?

He has not been tested for chlamydia. I will mention that to the vet on Friday.

I do have a space heater I can use. We keep our house at 70 all the time. He's behaving and acting normally. Should I try out the space heater? Or, I can crank up the heat in our house for a few days, too.

Another pic:

I agree that he definetly has something going on! Unfortunately, giardia isn't shed in every bowel movement, that is why the 30-45 day treatment is needed there. Chlamydia is also common among tiels and budgies, so it is possible that he picked that up and isn't showing symptoms other than the plucking/inflamed area.

Call your former vets and get the records from all fecal/bloodwork exams done. Insist that this vet do them again too! Make a big deal about the weight loss, since it is a big deal. Bring a full write up about symptoms, birds he has been exposed to and when, and what has been done to treat him and when. Bring that cream to the vet's office as well so they can see it.

Also, let us know what the vet has to say.

If you've not already made this decision, I feel that any future bird-sitting should be done only in the birds' home, with you taking great care to not track possible infection to them or back home. Many, if not most, avian diseases are air borne in dried poop that travels as dust, landing in your hair, on your clothes, skin, and shoes.

I've read that sick birds need to be at 85 degrees. That's why a heat panel is so good. Space heaters are much too dangerous and you don't want your house heated that high. As described in the thread I mentioned earlier, to test whether he needs the heat, stand a regular lamp right beside his cage, beside his favorite perch, and see if he sits right under it. If you're not watching, his poop will reveal where he chose to sit most of the time. If he's sticking close to the lamp, it's because he needs the heat. Order a small heat panel right away!

My best ...

christie wrote:I agree that he definetly has something going on! Unfortunately, giardia isn't shed in every bowel movement, that is why the 30-45 day treatment is needed there. Chlamydia is also common among tiels and budgies, so it is possible that he picked that up and isn't showing symptoms other than the plucking/inflamed area.

Call your former vets and get the records from all fecal/bloodwork exams done. Insist that this vet do them again too! Make a big deal about the weight loss, since it is a big deal. Bring a full write up about symptoms, birds he has been exposed to and when, and what has been done to treat him and when. Bring that cream to the vet's office as well so they can see it.

Also, let us know what the vet has to say.

I have read that (not being shed in ever bowel movement). He's been tested twice now and both times were negative. He was on the Ronidazole for 10 days with the powder being put in his water.

I have printouts from all three vet visits. Unfortunately, they are kinda Greek to me. I can scan and post them here if someone thinks they can read/understand them.

I plan on taking all records, my notes and the cream to the new vet on Friday. I hope he's attentive. I feel my current vet is kind-of dismissive and too quick...I have questions, but I feel like she doesn't really have time for them. I'm not real crazy about her, to be honest. I guess I was impressed by her initially because she actually ran tests, whereas my original vet never really did anything besides visually look over my birds and give me broad spectrum antibiotics.

Bluesbird Exotics wrote:If you've not already made this decision, I feel that any future bird-sitting should be done only in the birds' home, with you taking great care to not track possible infection to them or back home. Many, if not most, avian diseases are air borne in dried poop that travels as dust, landing in your hair, on your clothes, skin, and shoes.

I've read that sick birds need to be at 85 degrees. That's why a heat panel is so good. Space heaters are much too dangerous and you don't want your house heated that high. As described in the thread I mentioned earlier, to test whether he needs the heat, stand a regular lamp right beside his cage, beside his favorite perch, and see if he sits right under it. If you're not watching, his poop will reveal where he chose to sit most of the time. If he's sticking close to the lamp, it's because he needs the heat. Order a small heat panel right away!

My best ...

Yep, I think bird sitting is not in my future. I thought it would be a fun thing to do (as I'd get to meet all kinds of birds) and a nice way to earn a few extra $$$, but now knowing that it could put my current flock in danger, I'd rather not take that chance.

I'll look into getting a heat panel.

Mateo is doing well tonight. He's flirting with his fleece blanket while chirping "Hi Mateo!" I love this little bugger so much.

I got a gram scale tonight and weighed him. He weighs 89 grams. Up three from the vet's office, but you never know if there's differences in the scales or not. I'll keep weighing him every day for awhile.

I don't think that many people here can make sense of the test results, but the new vet should be able to. Tell the new vet your concerns and the fact that you felt dismissed by the last vets.

I agree about the bird sitting. As much as I would like to do so, I'm afraid of what could happen to my current flock too. If your bird does have something, you may want the other people know that he picked it up from one of them and that they may want to have their birds tested as well. You may also want to ask about the other birds in your flock and if they should be treated as well. Hopefully it is something that isn't highly contagious!!

You may also want to ask about danger to you as well and anything you can do to help mitigate you, family members, or the rest of the flock from getting it.

As for weighing your birds, make sure you weigh them at the same time every day, that will help eliminate fluxuations from eating. I found that one of my birds varies almost 10 grams from first waking up to a few hours later.

One of the avian vets that I worked with at the wildlife hospital told me that in-water meds can be less effective with birds like tiels because they are desert dwellers and only drink once a day....twice at best...in the wild. And if the water doesn't taste right, and they have fruit and veg available they will opt to get their hydration that way and avoid the water. She would always recommend that when treating desert dwelling species that all f&v be withheld while meds were being given. Has anyone else been told anything similar? I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO WITH MATEO, but I can see the logic behind it, and it's a practice I often follow still. Has anyone else...BB or Bubblelady...specifically heard or read anything similar. (It's obvoius to me that you both do your homework so to speak....) It's a bit more difficult with long term meds though. Most of the birds we treat with 14 days or less of meds. Any longer and I usually opt for long acting injectibles. Giardia and chlamydia aren't illness that I have to deal with here. Well....chlamydia in koalas...but that's another thread for another board..... Most of my probs are with psittacosis or cocci, as far as parrots go.

That was a very good suggestion regarding testing to find out if Mateo feels a need for supplimental heat!!!! If he does it can be a real lifesaver to just relieve his body of the responsibility of doing that for itself.

Yes, it is highly likely that there is a difference between your scales and the vet's. But now you have your baseline for your scales you can monitor his weight and accurately determine whether he is indeed gaining or losing.

If you are fairly confidant that the redness has increased while you were using the cream then I would definitely give it a miss til you see this new vet on Friday. You come across to me as articulate and intelligent, and if you approach this new vet in that manner I am sure you will have an excellent working relationship.