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Thanks for the post, MFids. I do have a small list of questions I'll be bringing to the vet's next month.

Yes, Button did have AGY at one time and was treated. It seems that she has had one issue after another. I keep her cage spotless. fresh clean water (spring) and good food including greens.I still think it is residual fungal problem but she almost died from the treatment...I tried at one time to give Button organic cherry juice but she hated it.
If Mateo is diagnosied with fungal (or something else) that diagosis might help Button. Some vets think of things different from other vets...

bostonbudgie wrote:Yes, Button did have AGY at one time and was treated. It seems that she has had one issue after another. I keep her cage spotless. fresh clean water (spring) and good food including greens.I still think it is residual fungal problem but she almost died from the treatment...I tried at one time to give Button organic cherry juice but she hated it.
If Mateo is diagnosied with fungal (or something else) that diagosis might help Button. Some vets think of things different from other vets...

That's what I'm hoping for - between the two of us, we can get this resolved.

So, you say Buttons hasn't molted in years? Seriously?

It was a long time ago she had it and I beleive it was an antibotic (I'm sorry I can not remember) and then she was treated prophylactically with a little apple cider vinegar in her water for a week or so.
Carl (the throwing up budgie) was "suspected" of AGY and treated with amphitericin .2ml twice a day (!?!) I almost killed him because the dosage was so HUGE for a budgie (I've treated budgies in the past and they usually get .05ml per treatment. It was hard enough giving them that amount)I didn't go back to that vet again because I really felt she didn't know *&^% about budgies.
it's been 1 1/2 years later since that visit and Carl still throws up.I now give him avicakes and harrison's mash. he's doesn't throw up as often now...

Well, yeast *IS* a fungal problem, not a bacterial.... therefore, treating with antibiotics could make the yeast worse. (although looking back on your posts, she was treated with diflucan [antifungal] for 21 days - although you treated for 30 days and then did a few days treatment of itraconazole) From exoticpetvet.net they should be treated for 28 days on Amphotericin B, not 14 days or less.

The drug of choice for treating AGY is currently Amphotericin B, administered orally. Birds being treated with this medication should be closely monitored. Experimentally, Amphotericin B dosed at 100 mg/kg PO BID for 14 days resulted in 8 out of 10 birds testing negative. When dosed at 100 mg/kg PO BID for 28 days, the organism was eliminated in 100% of the test birds. Fluconizole, another antifungal medication, proved too toxic to eliminate AGY in test subjects, but when given at lower (safer) doses, it failed to eliminate the organism in many cases. This study was performed by Dr. David Phalen and his group at the Schubot Exotic Bird Health Center in 2002.

You later mentioned that her liver values were rather high. The info I'm looking up says that Fluconazole (aka Diflucan) can also [rarely] cause liver damage. However, many meds can cause organ damage so it's hard to say if one med is better than another. A good question here is, did Button have liver problems before or after the meds?

I suppose it's possible that you are surrounded by incompetent vets. I know that I don't trust my avian vet all that well anymore because he told me that one of my birds has liver problems, and it's really kidneys... and although he gave me an 'out of date' treatment (vs allopurinol) for helping the kidneys, they hardly helped... I asked two avian vets about using 'home remedies' (aka 'miracle cures') instead, and both vets didn't believe it was a good idea. I did it anyway and I saw a *HUGE* improvement!


I wish something could be figured out for Button and Mateo!

You are right FIDS it is a fungus not a a bacteria and it would be made worst using antibotics.
Carl was prescribed amphotericin but like I said, I almost killed him because the amount was huge (he was drowning!)
I don't know if Button had a liver problem before taking the meds. I am guessing she did not but I brought it to the vet's attention that her droppings where black and tarry AFTER she was taking the meds (which is a sign of liver breakdown)
Button has been to six different vets...I even took her to Angel memorial in Boston which is famous for it's vets. At first they were going to do a skin biopsy and then ..it wasn't mentioned again.(?) I tried calling NUMEROUS times to get the vet to talk to me but the place is like grand central station. I called every day for 3 weeks and then gave up.They were just too busy.....

MFids wrote:I wish something could be figured out for Button and Mateo!

You and me both. There's only two avian vets in the area, and one really isn't certified avian, but rather sees birds on a regular basis. I'm really holding onto hope that this new vet can help. I guess even if we don't get anywhere, we tried and Mateo certainly doesn't seem to be suffering in the interim; he's just as happy as he always has been.

This is him today, dancing his little heart out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62UK5TNFfiA

How is Mateo doing? Is he still picking (when I mean picking are you finding feather chunks?)
My cousin has this dog who has been chewing his skin plus having "digestive issues".(soft poops) The vet thinks it might be a food allergy.She had low protein levels in her blood. (Button also had low protien levels so that is why I am thinking....) Sometimes I wonder if that could be a factor with Button & Mateos situation(?) but it is hard to pin point it. I am wondering if lutinos are more suspectable to food sensitivities (?) It seems that the more domesticated animals become the more they get human-like health issues (cancer, allergies,..etc)
I dunno..I've tried eliminating foods but..the problem is I have 12 birds so sometimes she sneaks in the other cages and eat their food. I know corn on the cob definitely makes her pick more...
I'm just thinking and as always, obsessing......

bostonbudgie wrote:How is Mateo doing? Is he still picking (when I mean picking are you finding feather chunks?)
My cousin has this dog who has been chewing his skin plus having "digestive issues".(soft poops) The vet thinks it might be a food allergy.She had low protein levels in her blood. (Button also had low protien levels so that is why I am thinking....) Sometimes I wonder if that could be a factor with Button & Mateos situation(?) but it is hard to pin point it. I am wondering if lutinos are more suspectable to food sensitivities (?) It seems that the more domesticated animals become the more they get human-like health issues (cancer, allergies,..etc)
I dunno..I've tried eliminating foods but..the problem is I have 12 birds so sometimes she sneaks in the other cages and eat their food. I know corn on the cob definitely makes her pick more...
I'm just thinking and as always, obsessing......

I do not see Mateo picking at his wing feathers anymore. It's possible he's still doing it, but I'm not seeing it currently, whereas I was before. He's still bald under wings, but one is more bald than the other.

I am very curious to see what the vet has to say when I take Mateo in at the end of February.

Other than the bald wing stuff, he's great.

Some more info someone just recently posted.... again, I don't know how it could help, but?

A few years ago, I believe at an African Parrot Conference, I heard an avian vet sharing her observations about feather destructive behavior. She said that she was beginning to see some correlation between feather plucking on the chest and under the wing along the major arteries to a later discovery of some cardiac or circulatory problem. She said that there may be a connection between these two issues.

Mateo is going to the vet this Saturday. He's still very bald under his wings, and looks even more so under one in particular (see pic). I hope the vet can figure something out. He's actually starting to moult a little now.

He doesn't look too bad. I miss I could get a decent shot of Button's baldness but she fusses too much
Hopefully the vet will have some answers for you

bostonbudgie wrote:He doesn't look too bad. I miss I could get a decent shot of Button's baldness but she fusses too much
Hopefully the vet will have some answers for you

See, I look at it and it makes me cringe. I think it looks horrible. It's definitely spread since it started last August. At that point, it was about quarter sized and in his wing pit. Now it goes up his wing. I know he's fine emotionally, but it's just hard to see. If I don't get any results from the vet, I might try something crazy like writing to Bird Talk or something. I keep thinking if I have a wider audience I might get someone who's bird has had this and been treated for it successfully.

hmmmmm....I know I keep asking you this but..do you see or hear Mateo yanking at his skin/feathers? or find bits from plucking? I can hear Button yanking at herself by her screaming and I find bits chucked around.It's awful but I am at my wits end......