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azlutinobaby · by **azlutinobaby** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:47 pm

Just adopted a 6 month old cockatiel from a family who was moving. No longer giving it attention they had bought a parakeet for company. It loves to be pet and wants to be with us all the time. It non stop bites. But its not mean biting its chew biting. I watched you tube and a lady gently wiggled her hand to stop it so it would be off balance and not bite. It is also its first molt only being 6 months of age. I read everything I could on here. I am thinking it doesn't understand the gnawing on our skin hurts. It is such a lover and wants to be held and pet all the time. Am I correct about the chew like biting is that a baby thing? Also be patient while molting. Is the wiggling hand okay to do? Any suggestions? I will be on my way now to surf around here to find out about food and upgrading the cage. Looking forward to learingin more on this site and from all of you!

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:24 pm

azlatinobaby wrote:... a lady gently wiggled her hand to stop it so it would be off balance and not bite. ... I am thinking it doesn't understand the gnawing on our skin hurts. It is such a lover and wants to be held and pet all the time. Am I correct about the chew like biting is that a baby thing? Also be patient while molting. ...

Congratulations! That baby is very lucky to have found her way to you. Your instincts seem good. Throwing the bird off balance was a popular technique 15-20 years ago. Since then, trust-building is the name of the game :idea:

You said it with PATIENCE! When the baby gnaws on you, say No in the same instructive tone you'd use with a 3 year old human you love.

So glad you're here

mytielwoody · by **mytielwoody** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:15 pm

Welcome! and congrats on your new baby! Please post some pics......we love pics!

azlutinobaby · by **azlutinobaby** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:01 pm

Oh my goodness. The bird went from gentle to terror. We have been so good with it. It is so stressed out and is grumpy grumpy grumpy. It wants to be with us all the time and we have been there for it. It still wants to be with us as much but just to chew and bite non stop and tear the skin on our hands. If we put it down gently it goes after our legs. We are continuing to be soft spoken and gentle. We just put it down and walk away. It is even attacking the little parakeet that shares a cage with it now. New home syndrome? Just time and understanding is all we can do right? Of course its only 6 months and going through its first molt so I assume the hormones are raging? Any advise? As a new cockatiel mommy I am in panic and going to read more through the forum for some more info.. :shock:

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:27 pm

azlatinobaby wrote:... New home syndrome? ...

Does sound like a bird in fear for his life. I would talk with him in a friendly, playful way while he's perched on his cage, not on human body parts. Let him get to know your voices and faces without giving him a chance to learn to gnaw you bloody. And please give him his own cage. Budgies can and will kill 'tiels. Your 'tiel's instincts could be telling him he's in mortal danger, and he's putting up an aggressive defense.

At 6 months, he's too young for sexual hormones to be flowing, but he's old enough to be developing his own personality with likes and dislikes. While he's terrified of being somebody's lunch, he's unlikely to display much except terror. Most birds calm and begin adapting in 2-3 weeks. Be patient.

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:34 pm

Ahhh, little yellow 'tiel! I've had 3 of those pretty birdies. It takes so much inbreeding to create their lovely exterior that oftentimes the interior is a mess. They are infamous for their psychitzy behavior, although one of mine is as steady as a gorgeous rock :wink:

Until you know him better, and he you, I would assume he's "normal" and hope he adapts. But if he doesn't, know that it's most likely his genetic heritage and not anything you or he is doing wrong. Just love him as he deserves and protect your bodies from harm!

catjsykes · by **catjsykes** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:22 am

bluesbird -- Are you referring to all Lutino cockatiel's when you talk about "little yellow tiels". Just curious since our Raisin is a Lutino and looks similar to the picture. I know when we were discussing the budgies with Amy, she advised that the white budgies were the most inbred and most likely to have problems. We never asked about Raisin or Lutino cockatiels in general because it's too late anyway!

azlutinobaby · by **azlutinobaby** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:35 am

Well I found a site that said not to wiggle the bird. To ignore the behavior and not to react. Maybe with a stern no. I didn't know you could mutate a bird for color wow! It knew how to snuggle and nibble the first 2 days just fine. It does not cower or hide in the cage it just wants us. We let it come to the opening on its own. It puts its head down for us to pet it. Lets us put it to sleep, preens or prunes itself on our finger. So weird. Last night we made sure it was quiet and located in a corner so it gets plenty of sleep. I took him or her out this morning. Gave it millet before any movement. Gave it other alternatives to chew but still wants to gnaw hard on skin. So when I started feeling like I had enough and could take as much as possible and not giving a reaction back I placed it back in its cage. Time will tell I suppose. I think birds are more moody than any person I have ever known. Maybe its a hormone thing. Sighhhh.... We'll just have to keep on trucking and see what happens.

We have not had the bird sexed yet. Thank you to your responses. I will continue reading and be patient to see what happens.

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:45 am

catjsykes wrote:bluesbird -- Are you referring to all Lutino cockatiel's when you talk about "little yellow tiels". Just curious since our Raisin is a Lutino and looks similar to the picture. I know when we were discussing the budgies with Amy, she advised that the white budgies were the most inbred and most likely to have problems. We never asked about Raisin or Lutino cockatiels in general because it's too late anyway!

Azlatinobaby's picture doesn't look like the bird has red eyes, so I doubt he's a lutino. Are Raisin's eyes red? Here's one thread that might interest you: cockatiel/topic83934.html?hilit=lutino#p116812 I think Mfids has posted the best information about mutations, including lutinos. If you click on the Advanced Search feature and then search for mentions of lutino (if Raisin's eyes are red) or mutation by Mfids, you'll get a lot of good reading.

The original cockatiel is the "normal gray." Any other color variation was produced by inbreeding, which always has some sad health implications. The more inbreeding it takes to produce the color variation, the greater the likelihood of more severe health problems as an added consequence. A mostly yellow 'tiel, even when not a lutino, took a lot of inbreeding to produce. That's an oversimplified explanation. Others can give you much more detail.

azlutinobaby · by **azlutinobaby** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:57 am

Bluesbird Exotics wrote:
catjsykes wrote:bluesbird -- Are you referring to all Lutino cockatiel's when you talk about "little yellow tiels". Just curious since our Raisin is a Lutino and looks similar to the picture. I know when we were discussing the budgies with Amy, she advised that the white budgies were the most inbred and most likely to have problems. We never asked about Raisin or Lutino cockatiels in general because it's too late anyway!

Azlatinobaby's picture doesn't look like the bird has red eyes, so I doubt he's a lutino. Are Raisin's eyes red? Here's one thread that might interest you: cockatiel/topic83934.html?hilit=lutino#p116812 I think Mfids has posted the best information about mutations, including lutinos. If you click on the Advanced Search feature and then search for mentions of lutino (if Raisin's eyes are red) or mutation by Mfids, you'll get a lot of good reading.

The original cockatiel is the "normal gray." Any other color variation was produced by inbreeding, which always has some sad health implications. The more inbreeding it takes to produce the color variation, the greater the likelihood of more severe health problems as an added consequence. A mostly yellow 'tiel, even when not a lutino, took a lot of inbreeding to produce. That's an oversimplified explanation. Others can give you much more detail.

Thank you for the info. We found the bird in the paper and purchased it because it was tame and nice. We didn't know the color and didn't really care. Just wanted a tame gentle bird for a good fit in our home. That is so sad about mutations. You wonder why if it is harmful why mutate?

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:08 pm

Because we'll buy them. The newer/rarer the color, the more we'll pay for them. Check today's addition to this thread: breeder-chat/topic92267.html#p130111

I hope your little one calms wonderfully fast and gets right back to snuggling.

catjsykes · by **catjsykes** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:34 pm

Bluesbirds -- well I can't say for sure about Raisin's eyes despite the fact that I've just been to visit him/her! I really was thinking he had dark eyes, so assumed they were brown. I know we had a couple of pics of him with red eyes, but thought that was just the camera. Perhaps not, because looking at my other posts, MFids commented that Raisin was a Lutino and I just spoke with my daughter and she says Raisin's eyes are very dark, but that they are red.....Thanks for the info on Advanced Search, I will try that.

AsLatinobaby -- Sorry I haven't meant to take over your thread! I'm a new cockatiel parent too (well, really my daughter is) and we will be bringing our newly weaned little yellow/lutino cockatiel home hopefully this Thursday. We spend as much time as we can with the baby by visiting him at he petstore, so we think we are bonding and learning as much as we can on this forum. It seems that I don't have much to offer in the way of feedback or comments for people, but I have lots of questions when I read other posts instead!

Is your budgie also very tame? How are the budgie and cockatiel doing now? Do you have them in the same cage still?

azlutinobaby · by **azlutinobaby** on Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:09 am

Ooo congrats on your new adoption to be as well! I bet you can't wait to take it home! Today we took our cockatiel to a specialty bird store. They said that it bit probably because she is young, scared, and testing boundries and such. So we are going to hang in there. We found out she is a female and seeing her eyes in the vehicle on the way there they were sure red. I don't mind what color she is. Just want her to be happy and not bite. We rehomed the parakeet that came with her to another family at the store so it would have a little buddy to hang out with. Post here all you want. New cockatiel parent fits your situation as well. Good luck bringing home your little one when you do! And post some pics as well. Today at the store they had white and gray cockatiels that looked like pale zebras. Another mutation. How do people come up with these things. Amazing! Check out this site for more information I found it by doing a search on cockatiel help. There are many sites. with valuable information. http://www.cockatielcottage.net/ Upatsix is great to be able to talk to others for really unique situations or what you can't find answers to by just reading the basics and it is much more personal. Good luck to you catjsykes!

MFids · by **MFids** on Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:57 am

This is a long post! A lot about mutations, too! So if you don't want to, you don't have to read it all!

Young birds explore their world with their mouths, like any other young creature. I'd have to say, be thankful you don't have a young starling!

The "earthquake" method (off balancing bird to distract them) is still popular, but with some birds can make matters worse. When I first took Charlie outside in his harness, he'd constantly chew on it. I'd do a little 'skip' or a quick but small movement of my arm to get him to stop and pay attention. He'd stop for a moment, then continue. He quickly learned however, that I wouldn't distract him if he didn't chew on his harness. On the other hand, if I tried that movement with Noel, she'd bite me! She wouldn't be biting me because she *just bites* or because she's angry, but because she wants to ensure that when she steps up, she will be stepping up to a stable spot. Noel has had health problems since I got her, and has very little grip in her feet, so she needs as much stability as possible. She'd bite me once or twice, but after assuring herself that my hand is indeed stable, she'll step up from then on without issues.

With your new tiel, think about her as a new puppy... when a puppy is chewing on something that they shouldn't be what is the best way to correct the behavior? Sternly tell the puppy "No!", being sure to show them what *NOT* to chew on, then give them something appropriate to chew on! Such as a dog toy... so with a bird, tell them in a stern voice "No biting! Be gentle", and then give them something to occupy their time! A little cat bell, some leather with beads, maybe some straws or grass, or something shiny but safe to play with! If they continue chewing/biting on you, give them a time out! A time out however, is best done in an 'unadorned' cage (i.e. a cage with one or two perches, but *NOTHING* else) in another room, or even the bathroom (with toilet seat down). If you put them back in their regular cage where they have all their food, toys, etc, they'll learn that biting you will get them back where they want to be!

Also, offer her treats from your hands... millet or even her regular food. It's a good way to gain a birds trust! I have 5 FLIGHTED budgies, none are tame, however if I've got food in my hand (ESPECIALLY millet!) they'll fight over the best perching spots to get at the food in my hands! Of course, I also have a cockatiel who has no interest in millet... :roll:

Try to not push your new tiel too much, give her space when she needs it, and try and take things slowly. Predators move fast. Fast movements can be scary.

The cockatiel may have hormones (my Casey has been masturbating since before I got her at 5 months of age, and she's now 7 years old!), but they aren't usually fully mature until around 2 years old, give or take.... hormones, however, is usually accompanied by some sort of breeding behavior... such as masturbating, or trying to make a nest. If you see neither, well it's less likely a chance its hormones... besides, when birds go through a molt, they tend to be grouchy... think about how big those new feathers are that are coming in! Think about a hair follicle coming out something the size of a big zit... it might hurt, itch, or just bother you like crazy! Especially if that hair follicle is stiff, and when rubbed the wrong way, it hurts! Just make sure she gets plenty of bathes! Plain water from a spray bottle at least 3 times a week if not more often.

I don't recommend keeping budgies and cockatiels together because budgies usually pester cockatiels too much... it CAN be done without problems, but I wouldn't recommended it if the two do not get along.

As far as I see, both Raisin and this tiel in this topic are lutinos. Cockatiels can have brown, 'blue', red, or ruby eyes. Ruby eyes are usually really dark red eyes that appear dark (not red), but in the right light are actually red. It is believed that back in the day when lutinos first came out, they were so inbred that they had a loss of feathers (think about how some people have thick hair, while others have thinner hair, even if they are the same age), creating a bald spot behind the crest (where there isn't much feathering to begin with). Some lutino owners say that there's hardly any feathers underneath the wings as well. If anything, lutinos, like any albinos, may have eye problems... anything from sensitivity to bright lights, to being partially blind, to who knows what else?

AZ, how did you find out that your cockatiel is a female?

The rest of this post is talking about mutations, and can be VERY confusing! So, I'd only recommend reading the rest if you are truly interested, or you are bored?

Now, as far as mutations.... They *DID NOT* come about due to inbreeding. A mutation is when the genetic code of a particular creature is messed up.... maybe it's missing a part, or maybe a part was replaced by another piece, or two pieces were switched, or who knows what! Maybe they have 'extra' genes? In short, it creates a 'disturbance' within the normal genetic code. This can then create a bird who does not look like it's parents. Breeders, thus wanting to reproduce this particular color, will try and breed the offspring back to the parents, or to other relatives of the bird, in hopes that someone within the family will carry the gene, and they can quickly reproduce the color. There is nothing wrong with this. It's when we inbreed so much, without a proper amount of genetic variety from new blood, that problems could arise. It's more or less bad genes that may be present within the birds that are also more likely to show themselves...

I used to think that inbreeding was a terrible thing, but I've since learned otherwise. There are some scientists out there (or so I've heard) that believe that inbreeding isn't really all that bad... I mean, after all, look at the Kings and Queens of England! I don't know if they still do, but they used to have marriages *ONLY* within the family (okay so I don't really know much about that time line, but there is a lot of info stating that inbreeding did happen in the Royal Families). There's also Egypt, to think about... although studies have shone that a lot of inbreeding can lead to genetic degeneration, there's also been a lot of rulers or people of royal blood that are several generations of inbreds... I'd suggest checking out the two articles below for more info! (that is, assuming all the info is correct)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding ... _in_humans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_VII#Ancestry

Short and simple, so long as the pair have healthy genes, inbreeding should not cause any immediate health effects. However, if we go several generations down the line of close inbreeding, then we may get to genetic degeneration, which may result in who knows what problems. However, correctly done, inbreeding can result in a larger amount of colors within a particular species, and keeping the birds healthy. This is usually called linebreeding, although some people will argue that linebreeding and inbreeding are not the same thing... linebreeding is about breeding a species down a line, using relatives to keep up size, color, or temperament, and bringing in new blood to ensure size/temperament/genes are kept strong. There may be very little inbreeding involved! But then, maybe there's a lot?

Really, creating mutations, generally speaking, is not harmful... it's bad breeding practices that are.

-------------------------------------------------------

The majority of mutations are actually not added color, but missing color, or color that has been modified... A whiteface cockatiel is just a normal cockatiel missing the yellow gene. A lutino cockatiel is a normal cockatiel with albinism, and missing the "blue" gene (I know this sounds confusing, but whiteface cockatiels are, genetically speaking, blue cockatiels, even though they do not appear blue, and never will... simply put, the whiteface cockatiel is to the blue budgie, as the 'wild-type' cockatiel is to the 'wild-type' budgie... same genes involved that's creating the mutation). The cinnamon cockatiels are an example of a gene that has been modified, thus making the color appear different. To put bluntly, the gene is simply "weaker" in expressing itself.

There are mutations out there that instead of being a reduction, are an enhancement of colors. It is, yet again, a modification of a gene, but instead of being "weaker", it is "stronger". This is how we have lutinos cockatiels with a white body and a yellow head with orange cheek patches vs a completely yellow cockatiel, with the yellow head and orange cheek patches... examples below!

Great example! Two lutinos! It is quite clear however, that one has more yellow than the other!

A very white lutino, with some yellowing in the tail feathers

An image of a very YELLOW lutino cockatiel!

Another thing about enhancements, the "blue" gene can also be enhanced in cockatiels but this is rarely seen, if not unheard of (so to speak). There was an article talking about someone trying to produce an all black cockatiel. Essentially, it would look like a normal grey cockatiel, only the grey would be black, and the orange/yellow may be a deeper color. I've seen a picture, as well as a male cockatiel, in person, that had "charcoal grey" coloring... they were dark grey, but not black. I wish I could have gotten a picture of the one I saw in person!

Some mutations can actually enhance the colors in other mutations... such as the pearl mutations may have more yellow than others, and can be seen especially in lutinos. The lutinos will be all yellow with white dots on their back! Although, I'm sure it's possible to have a pearl lutino look like a white lutino (i.e. no pearling, and no way to know for sure unless you know the birds parentage or you breed the bird).

Now, something to keep in mind, when I'm trying to explain to you a 'white lutino', I'm not talking about what is genetically known as a "blue lutino" aka "albino" (a completely white bird - which I will not delve further into that terminology, as it only gets more confusing!), but rather a difference within color variations of a single mutation.

In cockatiels, we have no terminology (that I am aware of) for the color enhancements such as those seen between a 'white' and a 'yellow' lutino, even though they are the same genes. In a couple other species, particularly the african grey (predominantly in congo, but also seen in timneh), what is known as "red suffusion". As far as I know, it's not so much a mutation as an enhancement of red coloring throughout the birds body. However, this could also be a pied mutation, or it's possible that they are separate mutations but can look very much alike. I can't say that I know for sure, as I've seen african greys labeled as 'red suffused', 'pied', and even a 'double pied' (an all red african grey). Damaged feather follicles on african greys come in red, and thus can easily be mistaken for a true red suffusion. To complicate matters worse, some chicks are labeled as 'red suffusion' but as they molt and grow into their adult feathers, they loose their extra red feathers. Or, maybe they are born normal colors, but due to a bad diet or illness, their feathers will grow in red, and when the bird is back in top health will molt out the red feathers and replace them with normal ones. It could be that any african grey born with red suffusion, and keeps it into adulthood is actually a pied, and all others are then just 'red suffusion's'.

As you can see, it's all very confusing! And as much as I know about genetics and mutations, on a majority, I know very little! When you think about that, it's kind of scary! The subject of mutations and genes is a vast subject and not one easy to cover in every detail!

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:20 am

You've done great, as always! I need to read through again, more carefully, after downing my steamy mug of tea. And I thank you very much

Here are views of my steady-as-a-gorgeous-rock little yellow bird :wink:

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