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MFids · by **MFids** on Mon May 02, 2011 10:53 am

Mentioned here...
cockatiel/topic109436.html#p152870

After a recheck on their gram stains, both Kiwi and the Bourke still have some bacteria in their fecals, but the Bourke I am to stop medications on as she may be able to get rid of the rest on her own. We are planning blood-work for Saturday the 7th, and depending on the results of that, we'll be doing the surgery on May 12th.

As for Kiwi, she gets to stay on meds until her fecals are clear of bacteria. I guess the office may be having some problems with their supplier of meds, since the meds are supposed to last 3 months, but it may only be lasting 2 months, and my a-vet thinks the previous meds prescried for the birds are expiring, which is the reason why Kiwi may still be infected. Got new meds for her. Frustrating, to say the least.

Both are on Vetri-DMG.

Asked my a-vet about cleaning, and she recommends a solution of water and vinegar, doesn't matter if it's white vinegar or apple cider vinegar.

Also asked about drinking water, and she recommends reverse osmosis or filtered water.

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Mon May 02, 2011 9:03 pm

Wishing the best for both your birds, Monica.

bostonbudgie · by **bostonbudgie** on Sun May 08, 2011 8:48 am

I hope everything goes well.
thanks for keeping us updated (and educated) on their medical situation

MFids · by **MFids** on Mon May 09, 2011 11:39 am

Welcome. I'm awaiting the call today to see how the blood work went, so we'll see if we'll do the surgery Thursday or if there's anything else that may be of concern. I certainly hope not, as she appears to be doing quite well, minus her foot! Droppings look fine, bright eyed, chirpy, etc! On Saturday though, she was quite ruffled by the experience of having her blood taken, and I felt terrible for her. She was off for the rest of the day, but come Sunday, she was feeling better. I kept an extra watch on her, just in case.

MFids · by **MFids** on Mon May 09, 2011 9:02 pm

Got the call. A-vet isn't ready to do the surgery... concerned about low white cell blood count (healthy, but low) and low protein... so going to switch her to a different diet... and supposed to put her back on the meds, which I'm afraid that if she's on them for too long, they may end up causing more harm than good... and a recheck in 2 weeks (may end up being longer than that, need to first purchase the new diet, which is not common in this area...)

My a-vet does not know what the expected lifespan is of a bourke (11-15 years, she's 14 or 16 - oldest bourke I've heard of was 21), and she (and the vet assistant) has never seen or practiced on bourkes before... so they have no data/experience to compare my bourke's results to.... quite, encouraging....

bostonbudgie · by **bostonbudgie** on Tue May 10, 2011 1:37 pm

What exactly is the surgery for?
Perhaps some cooked egg whites or legumes would bring her protein level up?
Bourkes are cute little things.

MFids · by **MFids** on Tue May 10, 2011 2:52 pm

Best I can explain it, a growth on her right foot. It is harmless, minus the fact that it bothers her, and it wont stop growing... I don't have any recent pictures of what it's like now, just an old one, when the growth was small. You can barely just see it in the below photo...

The first estimate for surgery was over $600, which at the time I could not afford (that's when I found out whether or not this growth was harmful). The re-estimate is just over $300, which is something I can do.

My plan is to put her on Harrison's High Potency, if I can find some of the right size (might have to order off the web), since I can't always provide fresh/cooked foods daily. (bad excuse, I realize - it's easier to provide soft foods during the weekend when I don't have work and wont have to worry about the food spoiling) She is a good eater, at least!

bostonbudgie · by **bostonbudgie** on Tue May 10, 2011 3:28 pm

oh yeah, I can see the growth on her foot. Poor little guy!

MFids · by **MFids** on Fri May 27, 2011 5:35 pm

The bourkes fecals were *perfect* - so we'll see what the blood results say. The a-vet was planning on putting her under general anesthesia for the procedure, but is now thinking that she may just do a local anesthesia and remove the bulk of the mass due to how calm the bourke is. I feel more comfortable with a local anesthesia vs a general, but worry that they may not remove enough of the mass, and that it will grow back. However, I suppose that could also be an issue even if they did a more invasive surgery.

Kiwi just can't kick her infection, so will be trying some supplements that I haven't heard of. I've been using distilled water, filtered water, water with ACV... if she's somehow reinfecting herself, it's not from the water.

F8 · by F8 on Sat May 28, 2011 8:38 am

MFids wrote:"……………………Kiwi just can't kick her infection, so will be trying some supplements that I haven't heard of. I've been using distilled water, filtered water, water with ACV... if she's somehow reinfecting herself, it's not from the water."

Confused about why your a-vet is not prescribing or has not prescribed a med to kill whatever bacteria he/she found in one or more of your birds?

Vetri-DMG, that you mentioned in earlier post, I believe is just to boost your pet's immune system to naturally fight off invaders? Correct me or inform me please if I missed something?

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What is Vetri-DMG?

Vetri-DMG is a liquid supplement that strengthens your pet’s immune system. It has many other benefits that make it easier for your dog or cat to stay active and free from viruses and other dangerous foreign “invaders.” Strongly recommended by veterinarians for pets with chronic illnesses including seizures, infections, diabetes, endocrine issues, heart problems, feline leukemia, allergies, asthma, and arthritis.
For: Cats and Dogs

Benefits:
• Supports your pet’s immune system in order to fight off viruses, bacteria, and other foreign microorganisms
• Helps your pet’s body cope with stresses
• Helps your pet stay active by enhancing circulation and muscle recovery
• Supports glucose metabolism which is helpful for diabetic pets
• Aids in cardiovascular health which is great for pets with heart disease
• Promotes antioxidant activity in the body
• Helps with liver detoxification
• Reduces lactic acid build-up which is very helpful for working or active dogs
• No known side effects
How it works:
Vetri-DMG is administered on a daily basis (twice a day for the first two weeks). DMG is a water soluble nutrient produced naturally in both humans and animals that helps the body use nutrients efficiently at the cellular level. DMG has been proven in clinical studies to increase antibodies which helps keeps your pet free from viral and bacterial infections. As a bonus, it also helps support stamina and circulation, so your pet can be happy, healthy, and active.

Cautions:
If your pet is pregnant or may possibly be used for breeding, consult your veterinarian before using Vetri-DMG.

More Information:

Brand Name
Vetri-DMG Liquid (Vetri-Science)
Active Ingredient(s):
N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG)

What is this product used for:
Vetri-DMG for use in dogs, cats and birds is recommended to help support proper immune response, cardiovascular and skin health, glucose metabolism and proper nerve and brain functions.

Availability:
Vetri-DMG is available as a 125mg/ml (6mg/drop) liquid in a 1 oz bottle

How this product should be used:
For dogs and cats, the usual dose up to 20 lbs is 0.5ml daily, 21 to 40 lbs is 1.0ml daily, 41 to 80lbs is 1.5ml and 81 lbs to 100 lbs is 2.0ml daily, and over 100 lbs is 3.0 lm daily. Give the suggested level twice a day for two weeks, then once a day. For best results divide amount between AM and PM. For birds give one drop by mouth per 100 grams of body weight.

What are the side effects:
There are no known side effects.

What special precautions are there:
Vetri-DMG is for animal use only. If animal's condition worsens or does not improve, stop product administration and consult your veterinarian. The safe use in pregnant animals or animals intended for breeding has not been proven.

In the event of overdose:
Contact your veterinarian or veterinary emergency room.

How should I store this product:
Store this product in a cool, dry place. Keep out of the reach of children and other animals.

This information sheet is for educational purposes only and is intended to be a supplement to, and not a substitute for, the expertise and professional judgment of your veterinarian. The information is NOT to be used for diagnosis or treatment of your pet. You should always consult your own veterinarian for specific advice concerning the treatment of your pet. The information is not intended to cover all possible uses, directions, precautions, warnings, allergic reactions, drug interactions or adverse effects, nor should it be construed to indicate that use of a particular drug is safe, appropriate or effective for your pet. It is not a substitute for a veterinary exam, and it does not replace the need for services provided by your veterinarian.
Note: Any trademarks are the property of their respective companies.

MFids · by **MFids** on Sat May 28, 2011 6:47 pm

F8 wrote:Confused about why your a-vet is not prescribing or has not prescribed a med to kill whatever bacteria he/she found in one or more of your birds?

Vetri-DMG, that you mentioned in earlier post, I believe is just to boost your pet's immune system to naturally fight off invaders? Correct me or inform me please if I missed something?

Kiwi has been prescribed Cefadoxril (along with the DMG - the info you have is correct), but she just can't seem to kick the infection. It's given twice a day and she gets .1 cc's. I picked up some Pretty Bird Ultimate Supplement. If I ever heard of it before, I don't recall it, and apparently the a-vet uses it on her own birds. Another client was even prescribed this supplement. I hope it works/helps.

http://www.niteowlaviary.com/PB_Ultimate.htm

Got blood work done again today. A-vet was hesitant about doing it, since the bourke has been bleeding a small amount, but the mass isn't getting any smaller, nor is it remaining the same size. When it was first checked out, the a-vet was not concerned about the mass, since the cells aren't dangerous in any way, so surgery at the time was not discussed. Well, it's worse now (larger), and I'd rather have it dealt with sooner rather than later.

bostonbudgie · by **bostonbudgie** on Mon May 30, 2011 8:01 am

I have the same problem with yeast.(reinfection)
I thoroughly clean bird dishes, change food, thoroughly wash cages, toys and the cloth perches. Sometimes I think it is the perches since they absorb pee/poop. I take them out periodically and spray/scrub with "poop off "then dry them on racks.
It is so hard to pin-point how and why our birds get reinefected. My vet suggested the fresh veggies if not properly washed carry bacteria and other stuff. ugh...

MFids · by **MFids** on Tue May 31, 2011 11:01 am

I haven't had Kiwi's mate, Pistachio checked out, but I've honestly never seen him feed her. He's quite loyal to her, and gets concerned if I handle her, and if *SHE* is on me, sometimes he'll even come and land on me. He just doesn't seem like a likely candidate, but I might as well get him checked out as well.

Blood work is back. Albumin is low, some other levels that were high have lowered and are near normal. Uric acid is up, which could be due to just being thirsty or kidney problems (which can also be due to diet, as I understand it, a high protein diet. What is she on? Harrison's High Potency.) More or less, she's been approved for surgery. Potentially risky, but approved none-the-less. A-vet wants me to increase her egg consumption to daily a week prior to surgery, and a week after, which means that, at earliest, she'll be getting surgery done next week. The bourke will receive Sub-Q Fluids prior to surgery and the day after, to give her kidneys a good flushing out.

The only issue I'm really seeing, is that I can't provide cooked foods daily without the foods spoiling, thanks to the random times I get home in the evening, and not having enough time in the mornings to be able to provide such food. If I'm able to get home early enough, and with her typically being more active in the evenings, we just might be able to get this to work.

Will be expecting a call by Thursday from a-vet just to go through all of this again.

Bluesbird Exotics · by **Bluesbird Exotics** on Tue May 31, 2011 1:56 pm

Hoping hard for her, Monica.

MFids · by **MFids** on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:51 am

My a-vet did call back on Thursday, and mentioned that the white cell count and hermatacrits were normal. Protein and enzymes getting back to normal. Uric acid is up, which could be due to diet, dehydration, egg laying or any other number of things. Blood cells were normal. There was some concern over her blood-work showing she might be anemic (her foot was bleeding earlier in the day), but there were no concerns once it came back. As mentioned, albumin was low.

Being that she started laying eggs, the a-vet wants to wait at least two weeks prior to doing surgery so as to stress her out as minimal as possible. It's been approximately one week now since the last egg was laid... so there will be at least another week and a half prior to getting surgery done, assuming she doesn't lay any more eggs. The mass is, thankfully, benign. Plans for surgery include Sub-Q fluids the morning of surgery, just prior to surgery, and the day after, with a heavy sedation and local anesthesia.

I believe she may be coming home with me the day of surgery, but I forgot to ask more specifically about this.

Still waiting to hear of any other possible ways to get Kiwi back into tip-top shape. Put in another phone call just to be sure.

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