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Hi everyone,

I've been around on the chat board for a couple of years I guess, but I don't post much. I have a new problem though, and I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter.

I have two cockatiels, Lady Gwen and Yadira, that are cagemates. Lady Gwen turned three years old on November 20th and Yadira probably turned two years sometime in November as well. Both are vet-confirmed females. They have been sharing a cage for about a year and a half -- basically since two months after I brought Yadira home. Both are handfed and very hand tame. Yadira is clearly the dominant bird, but I've never seen a serious fight between them.

About two months ago I noticed that Lady Gwen was looking scragglier than normal and had a couple small bald spots. She was due for her annual check-up anyway, so I took her in. The vet looked her over really well and said he didn't think I should be concerned yet, but to watch her and bring her back in if I thought she was worse, or if she wasn't any better by January. Well, the original bald spots mostly filled back in, but new ones started forming and they continued to get bigger. She also got small scratch on her face a few days ago. So this week I took her in again. This time the vet asked about her behavior and her relationship with Yadira. He believes that her feathers are being plucked and since one of the bald spots is on the back of her head, he believes Yadira is doing it. So he told me to separate them for thirty days and watch to see if Lady Gwen's feathers come back. I have done that. It's only been one day, so I don't know if it's working yet.

Since these are my first birds, my experience is limited. I trust my vet, so I'm not questioning his advice. I'm just wondering if other people have had similar problems and how they resolved them. Thank you for your comments!

-Maija

This is fairly common when birds don't get along. Separate them and keep them that way. Allow supervised out of cage time since plucking can continue out of the cage. Keep their cages side by side so they can interact but still have their own space.

This is a subject that always engages the emotions and brings out quite a few differences of opinion among those of us who love 'tiels. I've had several bonded pairs between whom over-grooming happened. After separating one pair for 30 days, I've decided I can't do that to them again, unless blood is drawn more than just a few times superficially. Over-grooming begins as loving affection. Why it goes too far is anybody's guess. It's probably an obsessive behavior related to humans biting their fingernails. Talk with your avian vet, but please think long and hard about the emotional consequences of separating birds who love being together.

This picture shows the over-groomed girl's horror at her lover's separation.

Linus has occasionally "over-groomed" Lucille. Her poor head was completely bald! I'm not sue if it was because of :boredom, the time of year, Linus's over amourous attempts at mating, sexual frustration etc...
I had separated them (cages next to each other) and let them have supervised playtime together outside the cage. Things seemed to have calmed down and then they could enjoy each other's company. This worked for me (and Lucille& Linus) for them to have 'time out" in separate cages for a short period of time.

Thank you everyone for your comments!

I'm more inclined to think the plucking comes from too much affection than from aggression. Yadira does insist on eating first when I put food in their dish, but she doesn't attack Lady Gwen and they do eat side-by-side sometimes. I've watched Yadira grooming Lady Gwen many times. She seems very affectionate. I suppose I wasn't really paying close enough attention to realize that Lady Gwen was actually being plucked. It's now been two days and Lady Gwen has pin feathers coming in all over the place.

One of the things that is troubling me about separating them is that Lady Gwen craves attention constantly. That was the reason for getting Yadira in the first place. I thought I had things very nicely arranged when I put them together and they began grooming each other. I guess the grooming got out of control. Unfortunately, my current furniture arrangement doesn't let me put the cages next to each other. I will change that as soon as possible. When I got home from last night Lady Gwen was in the corner of her cage closest to (but still across the room) from Yadira. She didn't look happy at all. I said "Hi" to her, but her attention was focused on the cage across the room. That's unusual for Lady Gwen. Usually when I get home she starts "dancing" and wants me to let her out. My roommate who works from home says they called to each other constantly the whole day.

There's one more element to this problem that may be affecting things. About a month ago I became engaged. Wedding plans are rather consuming my life and will continue to do so for another month (not to mention the holidays). Basically, I'm hardly ever home right now except at night to sleep. Once my fiancee and I are married and he moves into the condo, things will settle down, I believe, but until then out time is more limited than usual. I wonder if this is affecting Yadira and Lady Gwen's relationship? I've read that birds are very sensitive to what's going on in their people's lives.

I would like very much to be able to re-unite them after the thirty days, but I don't think it's good for Lady Gwen to be plucked. Maybe once I can get the cages side-by-side that will help. Do you think I can give them out time together before Lady Gwen's feathers grow back? I forgot to ask the vet about letting them out together.

Bostonbudgie, do you have Lucille and Linus back in the same cage?

-Maija

I would still let them out together, as long as you are there to supervise. What kind of toys do they have? Maybe some toys that can be destroyed would be a good way to get out some of the possible frustration that the plucker may be having? I keep feather toys for my over grooming male to play with. With these, he is much better about leaving the other birds alone unless they are asking to be groomed.

They have many toys that I rotate every week or two. The toys are made with palm leaf, coconut, wood, leather, plastic, mirror, and metal. Usually, I keep three or four different types of toys in the cage at a time. It seems to vary from week to week which type of toy they pay the most attention to. Yadira loves the little plastic chains. Lady Gwen doesn't play as much, but sometimes she chews on the soft wood toys. I haven't tried feather toys. That's a good idea. I'm glad I can let them out together. I'll make sure that I'm watching much more closely from now on so that I can separate them if they pluck.

Thanks!
-Maija

Oh yeah, they are back together. They just needed a "time out" from each other. The cages were side by side and I let them play together supervised outside. Linus was a pest and he just needed a cool down period. Everything is back to normal after 2 weeks.

Not ideal, but there is a spray you can get, called Stop Pick or something like that......
You could try using that for a short period, I believe it is a bitter tasting substance and should stop the "abusing" bird preening in that area

Would "Cease" by 8-in-1 be a good brand? I can get that one at my local pet store. "Pluck No More" I would probably have to order online. Does anyone know of an online store that sells the feather toys? I can only find feather toys in the cat section of my pet store. Would one of the cat toys that is a bunch of feathers attached to the end of a wand be safe? Or could I buy feathers from a craft store and make my own toys?

I finally got the cages moved next to each other. Both 'tiels are quieter now, so I think it helped.

Thanks for the ideas!
-Maija

I don't think those chemical sprays work for one thing. Just from my own personal experience I think giving them a "time out" in their own cages positioned right next to each other will help aleviate this sexual frustation plucking.

In my expierence, 8 in 1 products aren't worth the money you pay for them. I would order online if you are going to go the spray route.

I'm looking online for the feather toys I have. I haven't purchased them in a few years since I bought out the store when I last purchased them! I wouldn't use feathers from a craft store, you never know what they have been treated with. Cat toys (unless it is the full peacock feather) I would avoid too since they use a glue to hold many of those together.

Here are a link I think may help you:

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww37e.htm

I can't seem to find the feather toys I have. Too bad too since my finches love them!

ETA:

I found them!!!

http://www.1stqualitypetsupplies.com/056496.html?zmam=5908402&zmas=35&zmac=58&zmap=056496