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Claudia, sorry my bluntness worries you. Sometimes it's the only way to get someone's attention. My suggestion she move was sarcasm. I wish she would NOT get another bird. Said that more than once. She's said her budget is tight, and I feel her poor bird died w/o proper and needed care. Since I'm not part of your community here, I can say that more freely than some of you might. And I have. What she does now is on her conscience, not mine.

As more is learned about the bornavirus, it may become known that the disease isn't easily transmitted. It may prove true that bleach IS an effective way to clean. But right now it's a mystery. For her to insist on answers is ignorance ... and laughable petulance IMO. Much is still not known. And the value of a life cannot be equated with its market value.

Lyndsay wrote:So .. am I supposed to tell my parents we have to move out of our $300,000 house so I can get another bird? ... I obviously wasn't going to buy a new house or a car for a $100 cockatiel.

Bluesbird Exotics wrote:As more is learned about the bornavirus, it may become known that the disease isn't easily transmitted. It may prove true that bleach IS an effective way to clean. But right now it's a mystery. For her to insist on answers is ignorance ... and laughable petulance IMO. Much is still not known. And the value of a life cannot be equated with its market value.

Lyndsay wrote:So .. am I supposed to tell my parents we have to move out of our $300,000 house so I can get another bird? ... I obviously wasn't going to buy a new house or a car for a $100 cockatiel.

While this is true that we are learning more and more every day . I dont think its fair to put it as you do ..and so harshly ! Plain and simple there are many things including MRSA that will be killed with a bleach solution not many things if any at all can survive it , nor can they survive with out a host . Baking is also effective ....But the way you place it so harsh and matter of factly is wrong and unfair ! You bait folks into arguing and that is not right, saying that you said it as a form of sarcasm is not fair I am not rich nor are things easy here but nor do I have an over flow of money that does NOT mean I love them any less ! Just because you say that since I would not throw a $200 dollar cange away I dont love them HOGWASH ,I do but there are things of comon sense .I fear you are very harsh to any one who would have a disease that little is know about you would say dont keep this or dont keep that that is how irriational fears are started ! I would not , not get a bird because you said it is wrong ! You sometimes come off as a rude know it all when infact I do NOT see DVM avian certified DR after your name ,yes this is the internet and every thing you reed needs to be taken with a grain of salt but try a little tact once in awhile ... You also have a tendency to say it is my way or the highway , again we all have diffrent methods of madness that works for us , we teach what works but we dont judge like you do , and yes you are judgmental for the most part ... Sometimes you have to go with the worse case senario but often it is not needed ..

sadielynn wrote:[While this is true that we are learning more and more every day . I dont think its fair to put it as you do ..and so harshly ! Plain and simple there are many things including MRSA that will be killed with a bleach solution not many things if any at all can survive it , nor can they survive with out a host . Baking is also effective ....But the way you place it so harsh and matter of factly is wrong and unfair ! You bait folks into arguing and that is not right, saying that you said it as a form of sarcasm is not fair I am not rich nor are things easy here but nor do I have an over flow of money that does NOT mean I love them any less ! Just because you say that since I would not throw a $200 dollar cange away I dont love them HOGWASH ,I do but there are things of comon sense .I fear you are very harsh to any one who would have a disease that little is know about you would say dont keep this or dont keep that that is how irriational fears are started ! I would not , not get a bird because you said it is wrong ! You sometimes come off as a rude know it all when infact I do NOT see DVM avian certified DR after your name ,yes this is the internet and every thing you reed needs to be taken with a grain of salt but try a little tact once in awhile ... You also have a tendency to say it is my way or the highway , again we all have diffrent methods of madness that works for us , we teach what works but we dont judge like you do , and yes you are judgmental for the most part ... Sometimes you have to go with the worse case senario but often it is not needed ..

I agree, I didn't do anything wrong in the situation I was placed in, I payed for the vet bills on my own. I'm not in a tight budget, I'm just a logical thinker. I didn't wait 3 weeks intentionally like you said either, the avian vet was out of town.

I think you are far too stand offish and your comments are seriously unwelcome. If you have issues with what I'm doing, don't read my threads. No one takes what you say seriously. At least I don't and that seems to be your main concern. You're rude and I've already asked you to stop replying to my threads. You're wasting your time typing to me; I don't give even one iota to what you're saying to me. Call me ignorant, but I don't take to being spoken to as you are speaking to me. I'm an adult and you're treating me like I'm a child, like I don't know any better.

I didn't ask to be put into the situation I found myself in, I purchased a bird after some research on the internet. I was 19 when I got the bird. What do you want me to do?

Don't use sarcasm with me either, you're replying to a thread that is viewable to the entire internet. Without a DVM next to your name, your opinion means absolutely nothing. But I would hate for your misinformation to come up in an google search and have someone believe your stupid sarcasm.

Well now, let's all have a good old time attacking each other.

I for one, DO NOT find Bluesbird's "bluntness" offensive. I feel that Bluesbird's comments are direct and bear a certain validity. I think they come from a true caring for the species and that each and every creature deserves the be given the absolute best chance for a healthy and happy life.

And that might mean, if your bird, Lyndsay, did indeed have PDD, that you don't run out and get another one until you are absolutely sure that there is no risk of passing on this hideous disease to another bird. No matter how much you miss the sound of chirping - that's what an adult would do.

I am surprised that the vet made an on-the-spot diagnosis without testing and, even choosing to euthanize, she should have been tested. That would have answered a lot of questions. And if your bird was sick for two weeks and your vet is out of town, then you find another vet SOMEWHERE.

But Lyndsay, I too, find some of your comments to be less than appropriate. What adult tells another "you should have your head checked" or "your stupid sarcasm"?

Thanks, Sunnybird, I appreciate your support. I'd meant my last post to be my LAST on this sad topic, but realized overnight that I unintentionally misspoke about sarcasm. I was thinking of just one comment, but didn't say that, so it's very easy to understand how I confused and upset you, Sadielynn.

sadielynn wrote:... saying that you said it as a form of sarcasm is not fair I am not rich nor are things easy here but nor do I have an over flow of money that does NOT mean I love them any less ! Just because you say that since I would not throw a $200 dollar cage away I dont love them HOGWASH

A little background to clarify and then, I promise, I'm done. Before Lyndsay posted on June 4 asking for advice on treating her tiel's several days of vomiting so she could avoid vet care that she felt was overpriced for her "not unlimited" budget, her last thread that I recall was in December. She asked for advice on getting the bird home from college for the holidays. I suggested she find someone at school to care for her, but Lyndsay said that wouldn't work because she would be at home for a whole month.

Then when Lyndsay posted about wanting another bird, I advised her to wait until she'd moved. No sarcasm intended whatever. I thought she was in a dorm and that dorm room changes are made fairly frequently. I wanted her to wait as long as possible before getting another bird, both to give the virus time to die and to give her some time to replenish her savings. I had no idea she's living in her parents' home and intends to stay there 'til she's 27. Her sarcastic response showed no concern for the bird's welfare:

Lyndsay wrote:So .. am I supposed to tell my parents we have to move out of our $300,000 house so I can get another bird? ... I obviously wasn't going to buy a new house or a car for a $100 cockatiel.

That's when I replied in her same tone, sarcastically suggesting she move to her own place. Of course I knew she couldn't afford that. I was just pointing out an option others her age often choose.

And a bit of clarification too about my remark that "a $200 cage is nothing." She had asked what others with many birds do when one dies of a disease that's deadly to other birds. I replied that many times whole flocks are put down. Breeders face these horrible situations much too often and "cull flocks" to stop the disease. I said "a $200 cage is nothing" to mean the losses faced by those with large flocks at risk are huge -- lives and property -- and a $200 cage is nothing in comparison. Many of us have $200 cages that we certainly would not want to toss. But Lyndsay doesn't have other birds at risk. The whole point of this conflict has been an effort to persuade her to NOT place another bird at risk. The decision is hers, of course.

I agree with what Claudia has posted......Maybe blase, casual or perhaps, to some people, uncaring (trust me, I love all of my pets!) but I just call it being realistic.
I believe that there is always that small risk there, whether you change your clothes, buy a new car....whatever! the risk of exposure is always there! If you constantly have the attitude that you have to go to extremes, then you'll not only go crazy, but also broke! You have to take precautions, yes, but we're human and there is only so much one can do. I think Lyndsay should go with her plan.....clean and disinfect everything....she can even clean out her car best she can, air it out, spray it with a bleach/water solution. I think she is really trying to do the best she can.....may not be enough according to some, but really, if she does all of this and then waits until Aug, to get another bird, what do you think the chances are really that the new bird will exposed to illness. We don't even know for sure what killed her bird, could have been liver failure like someone mentioned. What are the chances even that the bird died from PDD ? I realize that things like this and quarantine are all important to protect our birds, but I also think there is only so much we can do.....it's hard with birds and we just have to do our best. I never even quarantined when I got my lovie Pip.....he came from a home where he was an only bird and he had gone through his babyhood and went to a new home, been to a vet, and never exposed to other birds......so to me he had already gone through a quarantine of sorts. You have to use common sense (which I believe Lyndsay has plenty of!) and there are LOTS of adults who think other people need to get their head examined, or think sarcasm is stupid.....ALSO, I think the way we speak to Lyndsay right now should take into consideration her sadnes and loss at this time, and try to be a little more gentle about what we are trying to say. Alot of times you may think being blunt will get the attention of people, but sometimes it also pushes people away, so then your point goes out the window anyway! When you meet someone.....if that person is kind and sympathetic to you, won't you be more likely to listen?? It's just like with our jobs......if you work for someone who is rough and tough and has to be by the book on EVERY little thing, or work for someone who can smile when they talk to you, sympathize when there's a problem.....I realize that no life is in danger in those situations, but it's the same kind of thing where being able to handle people with some kindness and caring in their words and actions really makes a big difference.
Lyndsay.....you go girl! go on a cleaning spree! go crazy! Mostly though.....make sure that cage is thoroughly sanitized....take it outside and soak it! bleach and water! That is what I did when I bought Woody and Boss's cage from someone used and other birds had been in it and all is fine! I even took a toothbrush into every little crack or small place with my bleach and water! I'm so sorry for what you are going through, but I believe that you'll do a thorough job with cleaning and sanitizing, and come Aug. we'll all be looking forward to hearing about your new feathered friend!

Sunnybird wrote:Well now, let's all have a good old time attacking each other.

I for one, DO NOT find Bluesbird's "bluntness" offensive. I feel that Bluesbird's comments are direct and bear a certain validity. I think they come from a true caring for the species and that each and every creature deserves the be given the absolute best chance for a healthy and happy life.

And that might mean, if your bird, Lyndsay, did indeed have PDD, that you don't run out and get another one until you are absolutely sure that there is no risk of passing on this hideous disease to another bird. No matter how much you miss the sound of chirping - that's what an adult would do.

I am surprised that the vet made an on-the-spot diagnosis without testing and, even choosing to euthanize, she should have been tested. That would have answered a lot of questions. And if your bird was sick for two weeks and your vet is out of town, then you find another vet SOMEWHERE.

But Lyndsay, I too, find some of your comments to be less than appropriate. What adult tells another "you should have your head checked" or "your stupid sarcasm"?

You need to know where I live. Driving a minimum 6 hours away is not possible. How are they not appropriate? I obviously thinks she needs to give her head a good shake before she replies. And her sarcasm is stupid. Because no one caught it.

Now with the illogical answer you've given me. How do you test a bird for PDD when it's been in the ground for more than a week? There is no way to test. I've emailed that university, they have no answers.

So... therefore, I will be purchasing a bird when I want. After I've done as much sterilization as possible.

Bluesbird Exotics wrote:A little background to clarify and then, I promise, I'm done. Before Lyndsay posted on June 4 asking for advice on treating her tiel's several days of vomiting so she could avoid vet care that she felt was overpriced for her "not unlimited" budget, her last thread that I recall was in December. She asked for advice on getting the bird home from college for the holidays. I suggested she find someone at school to care for her, but Lyndsay said that wouldn't work because she would be at home for a whole month.

It didn't work, I live in a college town and only knew college students. So who the hell was going to watch my bird if everyone I knew went home? And it wasn't to avoid vet care. The vet was out of town, I was asking for advice to help till the vet other available vet could see me. Which wasn't for almost a week.

Then when Lyndsay posted about wanting another bird, I advised her to wait until she'd moved. No sarcasm intended whatever. I thought she was in a dorm and that dorm room changes are made fairly frequently. I wanted her to wait as long as possible before getting another bird, both to give the virus time to die and to give her some time to replenish her savings. I had no idea she's living in her parents' home and intends to stay there 'til she's 27. Her sarcastic response showed no concern for the bird's welfare:

Lyndsay wrote:So .. am I supposed to tell my parents we have to move out of our $300,000 house so I can get another bird? ... I obviously wasn't going to buy a new house or a car for a $100 cockatiel.

That's when I replied in her same tone, sarcastically suggesting she move to her own place. Of course I knew she couldn't afford that. I was just pointing out an option others her age often choose.

Have you paid for university in Canada? Do you have ANY clue as to how much it costs? Actually don't even bother answering, because you have no clue. I've graduated 2 times in 3 years and I have to tolerate stupid stuff like this on the internet.

And a bit of clarification too about my remark that "a $200 cage is nothing." She had asked what others with many birds do when one dies of a disease that's deadly to other birds. I replied that many times whole flocks are put down. Breeders face these horrible situations much too often and "cull flocks" to stop the disease. I said "a $200 cage is nothing" to mean the losses faced by those with large flocks at risk are huge -- lives and property -- and a $200 cage is nothing in comparison. Many of us have $200 cages that we certainly would not want to toss. But Lyndsay doesn't have other birds at risk. The whole point of this conflict has been an effort to persuade her to NOT place another bird at risk. The decision is hers, of course.

Well you fail. And your purpose as others have pointed out is to attack me. So stop twisting my words. Stop assuming things and get the facts straight.

Lyndsay wrote:

Sunnybird wrote:Well now, let's all have a good old time attacking each other.

I for one, DO NOT find Bluesbird's "bluntness" offensive. I feel that Bluesbird's comments are direct and bear a certain validity. I think they come from a true caring for the species and that each and every creature deserves the be given the absolute best chance for a healthy and happy life.

And that might mean, if your bird, Lyndsay, did indeed have PDD, that you don't run out and get another one until you are absolutely sure that there is no risk of passing on this hideous disease to another bird. No matter how much you miss the sound of chirping - that's what an adult would do.

I am surprised that the vet made an on-the-spot diagnosis without testing and, even choosing to euthanize, she should have been tested. That would have answered a lot of questions. And if your bird was sick for two weeks and your vet is out of town, then you find another vet SOMEWHERE.

But Lyndsay, I too, find some of your comments to be less than appropriate. What adult tells another "you should have your head checked" or "your stupid sarcasm"?

You need to know where I live. Driving a minimum 6 hours away is not possible. How are they not appropriate? I obviously thinks she needs to give her head a good shake before she replies. And her sarcasm is stupid. Because no one caught it.

Now with the illogical answer you've given me. How do you test a bird for PDD when it's been in the ground for more than a week? There is no way to test. I've emailed that university, they have no answers.

So... therefore, I will be purchasing a bird when I want. After I've done as much sterilization as possible.

You DID NOT say "she needs to give her head a good shake before she replies" You SAID "you should have your head checked". THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE CRITICISM.

How do you test a bird for PDD when it's been in the ground for more than a week? YOU DON'T. But, when you are in the office and the vet says that your bird has PDD - You say, "are you sure? Shouldn't she be tested?".

I'm sorry you are so angry, Lyndsay. It shows.

But at this point, I am concerned about any creature that falls into your care.

Done.

Sunnybird wrote:

Lyndsay wrote:

Sunnybird wrote:
You DID NOT say "she needs to give her head a good shake before she replies" You SAID "you should have your head checked". THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE CRITICISM.

How do you test a bird for PDD when it's been in the ground for more than a week? YOU DON'T. But, when you are in the office and the vet says that your bird has PDD - You say, "are you sure? Shouldn't she be tested?".

I'm sorry you are so angry, Lyndsay. It shows.

But at this point, I am concerned about any creature that falls into your care.

Done.

I honestly couldn't care about what you think. I knew nothing except PDD was lethal. So how on God's earth am I supposed to know to ask for a test!? The vet told me nothing except it was lethal it was nothing I did wrong. She didn't offer an autopsy or anything! so how was I supposed to know.

USE YOUR CAPS AT ME ALL YOU WANT! I'm laughing at you.

Check, shake... whatever, she needs to evaluate her replies before she posts them.

Anyways I'll type it again. I did nothing wrong.

My bird was sick. I called the vet. Avian Vet is out of town. Secondary, non avian vet can't see you till friday. By Friday symptoms have gone away and bird appears to be fine. She is walking around my floor eating and drinking. She is social. A few days later she seems a little bit quieter than normal but she still sleeps on her perch. The next day things aren't so well and she is sitting in the corner of her cage when I get home from work. So I call and make and appointment. Bring her in, vet flips her over and undigested food pours out of her mouth and nose. Vet says it's grave and she wont make it and the best option is to put her down. So after spending some time with her, I opt to end her obvious suffering. Nothing was said to me about an autopsy. So I leave with the bird and bury her.

Where did I go wrong here?!

I agree Lyndsay, you did what you could especially since we all know Avian vets are not always easy to come by....

Anyway, how about we treat people with respect on this forum (and everywhere else......well, at least try ) and give the advice we think is appropriate but also leave it at that?
So I mean literally have the "take it or leave it" attitude without trying to force our beliefs, opinions etc on others?
You can give your advice, if someone chooses to do it differently, well then we just have to respect that, right?!

So, you mean if Hitler posts about his lovely new lampshades, we should just smile and say Thank you for sharing!? You probably have no clue what that's about. But that's my point. No, I don't think so... no, thank you. Being polite and avoiding conflict is just great for timid humans, but it's not good for the birds. Are you satisfied with what you know now or would you like to know more? Would you rather comfort those who kill birds through neglect or prevent needless deaths by learning more? Stretching can be refreshing! Try it!!

Is there an ignore feature installed on this board?

Ummm I am old enough to know about Hitler and please don't use that mongrel as an example! Ever!!!!

And I never said don't give advice, I said that you should just accept that not everyone is going to, or is willing, to take EVERY SINGLE PIECE of advice you give 'em!
I certainly don't!
I don't quarantine for 60 days, don't like that, too bad!
People ask for advice, and of course you can get upset when you hear a bird has died when you feel that person could have done more for their bird.
But to go on and on and on about it and scolding this person when you don't even know them personally??