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Hi all,

Can someone tell me if the same rules about tail feather banding holds true to determine females vs. males in pearls? Missy and Gizmo's chicks are all 3 pearls, and they all look so much alike, I'm having a heck of a time trying to tell if they are all males or all females. If the banding rule holds true, then all would appear to be males. I've not been able to see any banding anywhere (at least horizontal banding) but there are some "stripes" of short length mid-shaft of the tail feathers.

Here's a picture made yesterday.

Thanks ..

Sam

Hi Sam, I thought ALL babies look like females with the bands on the tail feathers then the males lose them with the first molt. Dino has bands on his tail feathers, and I looks at some of Luna's tail feathers and I didn't see banding. Maybe there is banding under a black light or with the right angle of sunlight - don't have a black light and the sun is down. Their cheek patches sure look bright!

If they are males - how many males will you have? 15-18 I can't imagine how loud it gets in there!!

Jo

Hi Jo,

Usually, between the banding, behavior, colorings and just gut feelings, I've been pretty successful in determining sex of the kids, but these guys have me pretty well stumped. There is no horizontal banding on any of their tail feathers, which leads me to think they are all males. Maybe it's easier to tell boy from girl in a normal gray line, or similar colors. As for the number of males I'll wind up with, at this point, there are 7 males, not counting any of the new chicks. Emi checked on Smokey and Pixie's clutch, and the 8th egg hatched during the night or early this morning. They are starting to grow, and with such a wide spread in ages, that might actually help both parents keep them adequately fed. Depending on how many of the new chicks turn out to be males, I could conceivably wind up with 14 or 15 males At any rate, we'll do as we always have with chicks, let the parents raise them, but have them people friendly. What is so amazing with the oldest of Gizmo's chick is that it's not afraid of hands, people, other birds or what not, and already wants to snuggle up under you chin ! The 2nd chick is ready to fledge, albeit a few days later than expected, and the 3rd chick should come along soon as well.

Sam

my female (whiteface) pearl has no banding on her tailfeathers, at least nothing obvious, but she does have speckled sort of tail feathers....
The pearl baby male I've kept is now 7 months old and has no tailbanding either but is now starting to get solid grey tail feathers........
When my normal grey male stretches out his wings I see absolutely no white dots anywhere on the insides of his wings whereas with Meg, the female whiteface pearl, there are spots on each wing feather.
When Riley, the pearl boy stretches out his wings I can (still?) see white dots as well but I know he is a boy as he sings, struts, head bobs and displays the heart wing.
So I personally would think you can not visually sex a pearl but will have to wait till male (or female) behaviour starts to show............

this was Riley a few months ago, beautiful pearls unfortunately those pearls are starting to "fade" now

this is him now, see how the pearls are fading
I guess if you look closely at the yellow feathers you can see a teeny bit of banding?????

If Gizmo is a pearl and Missy is a cinnamon pied then all these chicks are females. Pearl is a sex-linked mutation. If the mother is not a pearl, all pearl offspring will be females. If the mother is a pearl, and the father is not, then all males will be split pearl. If both parents carry the pearl gene then you can get male and female pearl offspring. You need to remember that Pearl is only carried on the "Z" Chromosome. Males are "ZZ" and females are "ZW." If males carry one gene, they are split. If they carry two genes, they are visual. Females can only carry one gene, so they are always visual if they have it.

Mother:Grey
Father:Pearl

male offspring:
100% Grey Split To {X1: Pearl}

female offspring:
100% Pearl

Mother:Grey
Father:Grey Split To {X2: Pearl}

male offspring:
50% Grey
50% Grey Split To {X1: Pearl}

female offspring:
50% Grey
50% Pearl

Mother:Pearl
Father:Grey

male offspring:
100% Grey Split To {X2: Pearl}

female offspring:
100% Grey

Mother:Pearl
Father:Pearl

male offspring:
100% Pearl

female offspring:
100% Pearl

Mother:Pearl
Father:Grey Split To {X2: Pearl}

male offspring:
50% Grey Split To {X2: Pearl}
50% Pearl

female offspring:
50% Grey
50% Pearl


Now as far as spots and stripes on pearls... well a pearls markings tend to be mottled as compared to non-pearl & non-pied birds. And, there are different degrees and types of pearling. Most pearl tiels will have some amount of stripes on their tail feathers but some have none. Some pearls will have mottled spots on their flights, while others will have clear spaces. Perhaps with the images below you'll be able to see some of the differences in pearls.

awesome shots!!!!
I do really love the pearl tiels
My pied pearl is the most stunning in my flock I find.

This was taken when he was really young still, look at this short tail feathers It also seems his yellow is darker there, his yellow seems lighter now He is now about 7 months old.




Unfortunately his pearls are fading a bit too but he definitely still has quite a lot of pearling left

Thanks Monica,

Genetics has never been a subject I was a good study of If Missy is cinnamon pied and nothing else, Gizmo is strictly pearl, then all the offspring are female if I read you right. I looked again yesterday and tried to find any kind of horizontal barring on any of the chicks, and there does not appear to be any of any sort. Of course, as you also said, behavior will be more of a clue as to sex than colors or other things, and it won't be that long before they will most likely start showing their personalities. I already see some difference in the 3 chicks, with the first being a tad more friendly, but that is kind of an understatement in itself, as I've never had a chick their age that would already sit on your shoulder and snuggle up next to your cheek or neck! The two younger chicks will let us handle them already, and are learning to step up. They are just so cute. I'm about ready to toss Missy out the door after finding out she's been plucking the chicks again. She started plucking the 3rd chick about a week or so ago, and even plucking Gizmo. Why she goes into plucking mode is something I'll never understand. The chicks are all out of the box and the box is gone, but she'll sit on the rope next to her chicks and deliberately grab a mouthfull of feathers on the neck, back of head, or even wings and just yank them out. I feel like doing her the same way, and probably would if I could get her to sit still long enough! She's the only one that plucks, and that might lead to her chicks plucking, however I've not seen anything like that in any of her offspring. Enough rambling ... Again, thanks Monica. I'll try to remember what you've told me.

Sam

What a ratbag Missy is
What goes on in those little heads of theirs eh? Poor babies

I wonder if Missy's behavior (poor behavior) is something that also happens in the wild? Could it be the stress of living in a home instead of the wild triggers something in the little birdie brain? Poor babies.

Luna,

It is a case of birdie domestic abuse. Birds that were plucked as chicks will do the same to thier chicks, so the cycle continues. That is why you should never breed a plucker, I don't breed my plucker. It is a matter of knowing what is best for the birds, and not allowing them a nest, or if you insist on allowing them to sit, to boil the eggs or replace the eggs with plastic.

Some birds never learn how to be a proper parent, so they do what they have learned, it isn't something you can change.