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I have a large cage that has NO grate and need some assistance in finding the right bird litter that I can use.

My Cockatiels love to run on the bottom of the cage and enjoy pecking at anything they can find.

There really is no safe litter that you can use. The tiels will eat the litter and cause crop impactation, or mildew and mold will easily grow which can lead to health problems such as Asper.

I reccomend putting clean paper down and changing it daily. Other users have also sucessfully used cut felt, and changing those every other day, shaking off the food/feathers and washing the felt before replacing it.

What about paper? B&W Newspaper? Plain paper? White Construction Paper you can get on rolls? Or?

I use crushed walnut shells in cases where I do not have a grate as in my diamond dove colony who like to run around on the bottom of their aviary. Works great, just got another 40 lbs for 12.99. I also use this for the bottom of my tree stands and perches. A cat pan scooper works great to do daily cleaning and once a week depending on their use I change out the litter. Do not have to use alot as it spreads well and will stay in place if they fly around causing puffs of air.

Hope this helps,
Dutch

That was 11 years ago, ground walnut shells are different now, it is almost pluverized into a powder. Can be passed easy if digested and found to be the best bedding if your birds are bottom dwelers as in my example diamond doves. I did not suggest to take out the grate on the bottom for her bird, but rather suggested from a species of which HAS TO BE ON THE GROUND!

You do not use a bottom grate for diamond doves!

You do not use paper for diamond doves!

PH - Doves are QUITE different than tiels. What works well for doves, finches, and other "softbills" does not work for hookbill birds.

While walnut shells may be different than before, they still do pose a danger to hookbills and should not be used.

christie wrote:PH - Doves are QUITE different than tiels. What works well for doves, finches, and other "softbills" does not work for hookbill birds.

While walnut shells may be different than before, they still do pose a danger to hookbills and should not be used.

As a general rule I have to agree with you on all accounts!

I am not found on this section of the forum as it has been over 30 years since I raised cockatiels. But when I saw the question I did answer and qualify such response. Her question was what to use on the bottom of her cage since it has no grate.

Yes, hookbills should have a grate on the bottom of their cage, no question about that.

But she wanted to use her present cage and allow her birds to run around on the bottom and peck. For birds that are allowed to run around on the bottom I do not suggest paper, gravel, newspaper, pine shavings, or the like. And for god's sake you have to line the bottom with something!

Present day ground walnut shells are the lesser of the five evils. It is "AGAIN" not suggested (for those people who do not entirely read the post but pick out things they want to see) as the best environment will always be a GRATE! But if you have to, my suggestion would be the current product out there "ground walnut shells." Not the old type, they were not as finely grounded (I used it back then and found them to be about 10 times larger than the ones I currently use) and now they are even finer than sand.

The other suggestions all contain chemical processing agents which are harmful to your birds. Cases of paper ingestion (ranks first) are far more common than any of the other suggestions. Paper no matter if it is printed or not is a chemical process that should be avoided at all costs. Kitty litter is absolutely out of the question and so is corn cob on account of the size of the granules. So the lesser of the five evils is ground walnut shells (Kaytee) which is at least a total natural product, produced in a clean environment, and ground now to allow passage if ingested. There are disclaimers on the bag (see Kaytee web site also for this) that suggest everything we are talking about.

But the (forest for the trees) question was what to put on the cage bottom if the owner wants to let her tiel run around on the bottom and scratch. With the disclaimers said, my suggestion still remains, and it is my suggestion, based on the available answers. Yes, she will take the risk of losing her bird with allowing this habit, but she should, in all due respect, BUY ANOTHER CAGE!

From all that I've been reading about grit, I feel that soluable grit is probably safer than walnut shell bedding, as I have not found anything to say that walnut shell is easily digestable.

MFids wrote:From all that I've been reading about grit, I feel that soluable grit is probably safer than walnut shell bedding, as I have not found anything to say that walnut shell is easily digestable.

No Monica (Ms Web Surfer herself) it is found by actual use and experiences, something you don't get by clicking and surfing.

Best regards,
Dutch

I'm glad you haven't had any issues with walnut shells, but I know others have. I have not heard of anyone else using walnut shells. Although your opinion certainly does count, it's not one of the "vast majority." (neither is mine, for that matter!) I'm willing to be proven wrong if there are hundreds of breeders out there using walnut shell bedding without any issues.

Monica, I have birds here that I've owned and breed, older than you, and swaying you one way or the other is not what I post my opinion about. It is just that my opinion, weighted by my knowledge and with 50 years personal experiences raising birds.

I do not need your approval to validate my life.

Just because something is not on the internet doesn't make it wrong.

This (posting) is actually the best choice scenario out of a bunch of lousy choices, reduce the number of the choices by common sense. That is all that this is about, unless taken into consideration your personal idiosyncrasy of being a stalker poster.

I only wish your birds are as well taken care of as the amount of time you spend here arguing with other experienced breeders and making your silly posts on every subject under the moon as if your expert in the field. Why don't you find a boy friend and make a life rather than disturbing those here.

Dutch

Dutch,

It seems as though you have hit upon the truly "correct" answer in response to the INITIAL question and that is, as you put it, "BUY ANOTHER CAGE".

I don't quite see why it was necessary to bring in the subject of diamond doves (and I freely acknowledge that I know NOTHING about diamond doves - so hopefully, you won't attack me) when the question and the board subject for that matter clearly has to do with cockatiels.

But really, Dutch, lashing out at another persons knowledge or, if you would prefer, attempt at knowledge, really is uncalled for.

Sunnybird wrote:Dutch,

It seems as though you have hit upon the truly "correct" answer in response to the INITIAL question and that is, as you put it, "BUY ANOTHER CAGE".

I don't quite see why it was necessary to bring in the subject of diamond doves (and I freely acknowledge that I know NOTHING about diamond doves - so hopefully, you won't attack me) when the question and the board subject for that matter clearly has to do with cockatiels.

But really, Dutch, lashing out at another persons knowledge or, if you would prefer, attempt at knowledge, really is uncalled for.

Good morning Sunnybird,

The only reason why I brought up the diamond doves was they are supposed to be on the ground foraging and not on a grate. From my experience this is what I use in that case. And yes you seemed to get the picture, and that was "get another cage."

As for the attack, really, are you that naive? Are you that new? Can you not see or read the material for what purpose it was written or are you another one of Monica's enablers?

She has done this for years egging on posters with her responses to other peoples opinion. She substitutes web surfing for actual hands on experiences, and when she does apply what limited experience she places it in a satirical framework. I welcome anybody’s point of view and opinion, but I for one will not sit idly by and have her reduce this forum to another segment of Yahoo Answers.

I have in the past endorsed, encouraged, and even offered support in her pursuit of higher education. I've applauded her attendance in college there in Nevada. But this is not her classroom, and she should know that a challenge here in the real world is not challenging her professor in class. She will not get a pass for simple classroom participation, but however will be responsible for not only the material she presents but also in the context she is presenting it.

If you can’t understand that I suggest that you not enter the water. From a purely esoteric perspective, I hope for great things from Monica. Her ambition is second only to my own children (I’m a father of five*) and look forward to her becoming that DVM as she so heartily desires. In other words I'm challenging her to step up in the middle of the heat and become that “expert” that she wants to be.

You think this is bad? Have you read the book “Alex & Me” by Dr. Irene Pepperburg?

Every scientist can expect to have their work cut up and dissected. There will be little room for feelings or personal mulligan’s. If you want to give her one, for being a woman, or anything else, you will not be doing her justice. This forum as in the real world is a hard place and there is no cushy spot to hide.

*- Daughter 28 graduate from Cal State San Bernardino- Math, corporate officer with Wells Fargo Bank
Daughter 27 graduate from Oakland University- (dual degrees) Automotive Tech & German- employed by Lockhead/Martin
Three sons, 26, 22, 18 all attend college right now (the 22 year old at the Veterinary School- Michigan State University)

Dutch

BA- UC Berkeley

Purpleheart wrote:As for the attack, really, are you that naive? Are you that new? Can you not see or read the material for what purpose it was written or are you another one of Monica's enablers?

She has done this for years egging on posters with her responses to other peoples opinion. She substitutes web surfing for actual hands on experiences, and when she does apply what limited experience she places it in a satirical framework. I welcome anybody’s point of view and opinion, but I for one will not sit idly by and have her reduce this forum to another segment of Yahoo Answers.

I have in the past endorsed, encouraged, and even offered support in her pursuit of higher education. I've applauded her attendance in college there in Nevada. But this is not her classroom, and she should know that a challenge here in the real world is not challenging her professor in class. She will not get a pass for simple classroom participation, but however will be responsible for not only the material she presents but also in the context she is presenting it.

If you can’t understand that I suggest that you not enter the water. From a purely esoteric perspective, I hope for great things from Monica. Her ambition is second only to my own children (I’m a father of five*) and look forward to her becoming that DVM as she so heartily desires. In other words I'm challenging her to step up in the middle of the heat and become that “expert” that she wants to be.

You think this is bad? Have you read the book “Alex & Me” by Dr. Irene Pepperburg?

Every scientist can expect to have their work cut up and dissected. There will be little room for feelings or personal mulligan’s. If you want to give her one, for being a woman, or anything else, you will not be doing her justice. This forum as in the real world is a hard place and there is no cushy spot to hide.

Bizarre, simply bizarre.

All further postings from you will be ignored.