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Postby caiqued on Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:14 pm

soaring wings, imo, i would have somebody else do the grooming and not you personally or you in the room. birds are smart they do remember.
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Postby dwiseley on Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:26 pm

It is better to have someone else do the grooming, but since you did it, they will get over it in time. They just have to learn to trust you. What is the socialization background on this pair? Are they breeders?

Definitely give them a lot of time, esp because of their age. Keep feeding them their favorite foods from your hand; the female will see the male eating and eventually want to as well. Play music for them and let them see you dance. (I know, it seems crazy, but caiques love to sing and dance) Keep telling them they are good birds. When you are with them giving them treats... eat some food yourself. Eating with your birds helps build bonds. Try Lafeber nutriberries and treats. Put a little peanut butter on your finger, let the male lick it off, the female will eventually give in. When she does tell her how good and pretty she is.

Read everything you can on bird behavior and developing trust with your birds. This pair may be more challenging and take more time, but it will be more than worth it!!! :D

Good luck and keep us all updated, and POST PICS. We must see them!!
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Postby SoaringWings on Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:54 pm

They are a breeding pair, but the guy told me the female was pretty tame. He said he pulled four babies from them three weeks before he sent them to me. I'm a very small hobby breeder so most of my breeders are also pets. I'm very good with working and training conures. I've written several articles on my web site about it. But conures are very predictable birds. I think Caiques are smarter. They have surprised me several times by quickly figuring out complicated toys that usually take my conures several hours to master. I was also surprised the female could talk so well, because I thought they were supposed to not be great talkers. You can see pictures of them if you go to this site...

http://www.birdbreeders.com/breederphotos.aspx?B=344
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Postby beakerskyler on Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:37 am

In the future, it would be better to have someone else do their grooming. Caiques, like most species, have very good memories and you need to keep in mind they were supposedly breeders. I've been around very few breeder birds who are 'tame'. Even reputable breeders make sure their birds' talons and beaks have appropriate care.
You will need to spend more than just a few days talking or reading to the female. They just been taken from their home and are now with someone they don't even know. That person has already violated their space by 'clipping' their talons and beaks. How in the world do you think they would 'understand' you were helping them?
Give them a break and let them try to settle in before you do anything more to disrupt their already upside down world any further.
Like Diana said, read everything you can about behavior, especially caique behavior. They are NOT like other, predictable birds.
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Postby luvthembirds on Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:37 am

Mfids,
I know grey cheeks aren't common because I've never seen them before. Aren't they like canary-wings? A while back i know Bird Talk had an article on them( canary wings that is). NancDavidDJ has given me some advice on them and has given me some breeder's websites to check out and said I could talk to them anytime if I wanted more info on grey cheeks.
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Postby MFids on Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:43 pm

The canary wings and grey cheeked parakeets are in the same family, or rather genus...

Canary Winged Parakeet
Brotogeris versicolorus

Grey Cheeked Parakeet
Brotogeris pyrrhopterus


Soaring Wings, I saw pictures of Mango whom I believe to be the female??? Do you have pictures of the male as well? I'd be curious if the male may be having some liver or kidney issues if he had a rather long beak???

In short though, I too have to trim a couple beaks... The major one is Charlie, due to a beak injury caused by him trying to attack a blind ruby macaw....

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I need to update the pics again... however being Charlie that's nearly impossible! He hates the camera so most pics turn out blurry.... For him though I use a dremel to try and keep his beak in shape.

The other one I occasionally trim the beak of is Noel... It's more or less her lower beak that needs trimming.... I would like to get her tested for liver or kidney failure, however then again she doesn't exactly show signs of having issues... as her issues are stemmed from a ferret attack where-in she is weaker than what she should be... thus she doesn't chew on hard woods as she should, and she probably doesn't grind her beak as much as she should thus to keep it in shape...

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For her however I tend to use more rudimentary items... such as wire clippers (cleaned), nail filer, etc...
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Postby luvthembirds on Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:35 pm

I feel so bad for Charlie! Poor little fella. How does he manage to eat?
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Postby MFids on Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:42 pm

He eats pellets which he can manage... however due to his beak he cannot eat seeds.... and he's so picky he'll only eat foods that I eat, not any fresh foods I give them if I don't eat them..... however there is a BIG difference in the healthy foods that I feed the birds and the junk foods that I eat.... or it's just a bunch of meat...
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Postby SoaringWings on Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:22 am

I could not get a picture taken of my male which I named Peaches. Like your cute little guy, he is also scared of the camera. I didn't want to upset him. They are both starting to warm up to me again. The Female let me hold her today without biting and the male let me scratch his head.
That is very interesting what you said about liver problems being associated with long beak growth. What are the symptoms?
Peaches look’s bright and healthy to me. He scraches in his food dish like a chicken for the dried friut bits and pumpkin seeds and food goes flying everywere. He makes me laugh. He loves hanging upside down from his long leather toy with wooden beads. He's always chewing on the leather. In fact, he chewed it up so much I put a bunch more leather toys in his cage.
I'm thinking maybe the previous owner might not have given them very much to chew, and that's why there beaks and nails were so long. My sun conures are big chewers too. I put blocks of natural, non-chemically treated, soft wood in there cage.... and they just love turning it into saw dust which they like to put in there nest box.
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Postby MFids on Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:41 am

Charlie isn't scared of the camera... quite the opposite actually! He'd more rather attack the camera and shred it if he could! Thus, I can't take a picture of him unless someone else is holding him (in which case there is ONLY one other person he allows to handle him... otherwise it's a no-go), or if he's in his cage. If he's on me, or sitting near me, and if he even sees the camera, he'll start marching towards the camera to attack! If he's not on me, he'll fly TO me to attack the camera! He also hates the phone, and me singing... :roll: :lol:

Here's some quotes however...

http://www.pgaa.com/avain/health/birdcare.html
Excessive urine can mean disorders of the kidney, liver or pancreas, and blood in the urine may be caused by poisoning or stress. A yellowish urine may mean a liver disease, while a dull, green-colored urine could mean Psittacosis.


Increased. Changes in a bird's routine can increase the need for more food, just as it would in a human. But, it can also be a symptom of diabetes. When accompanied with other signs, like weight loss, it could mean parasites, or liver or intestinal problems.


Underweight. Usually an indicator that your bird is not receiving sufficient calories. Its food intake should be reviewed to make sure it has the right content, and that it matches the bird's activity levels. Upsetting the bird's normal routine can lead to a loss of appetite and subsequent weight loss, as will beak problems. Continued loss of appetite and accompanying loss of weight can be indications of diabetes, liver or kidney diseases. If you bird is so underweight as to cause you concern; immediately take it to your vet.


This is for humans.... but I'd say some of the same things can be said for birds too... i.e. poor diet... http://news.netdoctor.co.uk/news_detail.php?id=18085755
Liver disease in the UK could increase due to the country's rising level of obesity, it has been claimed.

The warning comes from the British Liver Trust (BLT), which points out that a combination of an increasingly poor diet and greater alcohol consumption is known to add to the risk of a diseased liver.

Obesity can help aid the progress from fatty liver to fibrosis, cirrhosis and cancer, the charity cautions.

Alison Rogers, chief executive of BLT, said: "While much of the recent increase in liver disease has been alcohol related a major contributory factor is the nature and quantity of food we are eating."

She called the illness a "silent killer" because it does not manifest symptoms "until the liver is severely damaged".

The liver serves over 500 functions in the human body, including processing digested food, storing vitamins, controlling the level of fats and glucose in the blood and fighting infections.


http://resources.bittybirds.com/health.html#liver
Liver Disease

When a bird has fatty liver disease, his liver is unable to do its job. This causes many problems for the bird. Symptoms may include fluffiness, weight loss, excessive urine (polyuria), pigmented urine (biliverdinuria), and labored breathing. There are a variety of causes for liver disease, including infectious diseases such as salmonella and e.coli; vitamin deficiency is also correlated. It is a very serious problem, but it can be treated -- with help from your veterinarian.


An article on fatty liver disease in cockatiels...
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww61eiii.htm

http://www.cockatielcottage.net/questions2.html
A bird's urates, the white part of droppings, should always be white. Any change in the color of urates to yellow or green means that your bird is sick and needs to be taken to an avian vet. Yellow urates can be a sign of kidney disease.A bird's urine should always be clear and colorless. If a color change is noticed in the urine, your bird is sick and needs to be taken to an avian vet. Sometimes birds that are frightened, feeling stressed, have eaten a large quantity of watery vegetables or have swallowed a large amount of water while bathing, will produce watery droppings. This is an excess of urine and it's called polyuria. It's should be temporary and only last a day or two. If it lasts more than 2 days it's considered chronic. Chronic polyuria is not normal and can be a symptom of diabetes, liver/kidney disease, infection or disease. If your bird has watery droppings for more than 2 days, it needs to be taken to an avian vet. True diarrhea looks like splattered pea soup. Diarrhea is different than watery droppings and it means that your bird is sick. Sick birds need to be taken to avian vets immediately.


http://www.io.com/~tittle/ivc/1996/inte ... .3.09.html
Dan writes:
My parrot needed antibiotics because it was drinking a lot of water and was urinating heavy amounts of water. The antibiotics helped, but there was elevation of the serum phosphorus and uric acid. My question is what is the best way to prevent the problem from returning? For example, would it help if I reduced the protein in the diet? Are there medicines that would help prevent a return of the problem? What foods would be best to give and what would be best to AVOID. The parrot is about seven years old and is otherwise well.

Dear Dan,
From the limited amount of information that you have provided, it appears that your parrot had a kidney infection. This I surmise, since I do not know what tests were performed on the bird, what the results were, diet of the bird, or conditions under which the bird is kept.

Any time a bird has a uric acid elevation, this means kidney involvement or failure, depending on the levels. The symptoms of drinking and urinating excessively also points to a kidney problem., although there are many diseases of birds that result in these symptoms. Also with your follow up e-mail saying that the uric acid levels, and phosphorus were now back to normal with the use of antibiotics, the most probable diagnosis is infectious nephritis.

In cases of infectious nephritis (kidney infections), it is advisable to use antibiotics, and may need other medications such as allopurinol or colchicine. These drugs help to reduce the levels of uric acid and in cases of kidney failure are used long term.

Diet in the bird usually does not play a big part in treatment of temporary kidney problems, but may need to be addressed if the patient is experiencing kidney failure. Roudybush has a kidney diet for birds that some clients use for this purpose.

In your case, I believe that keeping him on his current diet would be sufficient providing it is a healthy one. Please check with your veterinarian on specific contents and recommendations.

Earnest Jacques, DVM
Ellicott City, Md


http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2752
Overgrown beak: Either the upper or lower beak may overgrow, though it is far more common for the upper beak to do so. For some normal birds, regular beak trimming is necessary. Other birds may keep their beaks in proper form through eating a hard diet, grooming, climbing, chewing on toys, and rubbing the beak on a slightly abrasive surface. An overgrown beak can be the result of health problems including trauma, developmental abnormalities, nutritional imbalances, polyomavirus-like infection (finches), or liver disease (especially in budgies).


http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2430
Birds with hepatic lipidosis generally have a sudden loss of appetite, are lethargic, and depressed. Many are overweight and the liver is enlarged due to the additional storage of fat. This results in a distended abdomen and difficulty breathing. They may have diarrhea and abnormal droppings (green in color). Birds may have poor feather quality. If the liver function is greatly decreased, birds may develop central nervous system signs such as seizures, loss of balance, and muscle tremors. Budgies may have overgrown, soft beaks. Some birds with hepatic lipidosis may develop few signs before they die suddenly.


http://www.featheredfamily.com/beakcare.htm
Liver disease, and other medical conditions can result in overgrown beaks, and beak tumors. Not only must you treat the beak, but you must treat the cause in order to correct this condition. Parrots with overgrown beaks can die from starvation easily.
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Postby dwiseley on Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:28 am

Your female seems fairly tame in the pics you posted of her. It looks as though she is surfing on your hand. Caiques are tremendously intelligent animals. My almost 10 mo. old female talks up a storm, and says things in context!!! It takes awhile to earn their trust, but it is worth it. Keep working with them and you'll see them warming to you a little more every day.
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Postby MFids on Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:55 pm

Well here's the newest pics of Charlie's beak... they aren't up to date, per-say, but they are the newest ones I have...

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This one might seem a bit funky... but the picture is upside down...
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Postby Michelle&Lola on Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:19 pm

Wow.. that beak looks pretty gnarly! I'm sorry that happened to him.

I once saw a vet show on TV with a female cockatoo who had the top part of her beak ripped off by a male cockatoo. The owner's vet made a new beak out of acryllic for her. It was really neat. She learned how to eat and preen again.

Found the story...

check it out!
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DG
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Postby MFids on Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:29 pm

It happened in his foster home... and well he did rule over 3 amazons! Guess he thought he could do the same with that big red macaw!!! :roll: He got work on his beak from Dr Scott Ford and Dr Brian Speer of Oakley Bird Hospital.... so he's very fortunate they were able to help him!
http://www.medicalcenterforbirds.com/index.html

As for a cockatoo with a prosthetic beak... does this look familiar???
http://www.parrotchronicles.com/marchap ... abled2.htm
http://www.indonesian-parrot-project.or ... glect.html
http://www.maars.org/news/petstory.php

If not well I'd say the stories are probably similar! And I've also seen one where a cockatoo got new feet after her mate bit them off...
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Good first birds

Postby ruffseas on Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:13 pm

luvthembirds wrote:I totally know that I need to be responsible for a bird. I don't want to bring home a bird(like a caique) and find out it is not the right bird for me, that's why I'm asking people and posting on this forum and i don't have a bird yet. I do like caiques but i feel I need to stick with a little less, well what's the word, energy in a bird. Before I try to own a bird like a caique, I need some experience. I'm sorry for not posting. I was on a field trip for six days then got stuck at a hotle/airport for the seventh. I am looking into Grey cheek parakeets, i think that's what their called.


Grey Cheeks are great first birds, another is the Pacific Parrotlet. They have a lot of Caique qualities in a smaller less demanding package. Caiques are definitely not a first bird. As a previous poster noted they can be VERY needy. As in require lots of one on one and the least amount of cage time possible. On the other hand they are extremely robust and easy to feed.

My first bird was a female Pacific Parrotlet named Peanut. She was an absolute HOOT!!!

I salute your serious research and inquiry on your first bird!
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