Alright, I wanted to put this out there to see what everyones opinion is.
You all know we have a bunch of parrots who are screamers, mutilators, pickers, etc. We also have birds who are very aggressive out of control birds. We blame a lot of this on raising them wrong once in our homes, behaviors, or medical reasons...
Now, in Sweden the majority believe that the offspring should be raised by the parents, and that it's best to keep most birds in pairs (particularly the small species). I think they have something going...
A while ago I read an article where some people took a bunch of young bull elephants (really, teenagers or younger), shipped them on a train, and put them into something of a zoo. Once into adulthood, the bulls became aggressive towards others and were destroying things. They solved the issue by bringing in adult elephants who basically took over the "herd" and everyone else within the herd into their places. The adults gave the younger ones a sence of They probably wouldn't have these issues if they had adults first.
I didn't get my handraised cockatiel until she was about 6 months old. She was handraised from day one of being born but surely was kept around other cockatiels once weaned, and around her "parents". Other than the occasional egg laying and constantly being hormonal (which seems to be a thing of handraised birds moreso than parent raised) I haven't had any issues with her.
On the other hand, I've heard/read/helped out with several cases where people have bought JUST WEANED cockatiels, usually between the ages of 8 weeks to 15 weeks of age. By the time these tiels get to 4-6 months of age, maybe a little older, they are screaming their heads off constantly, and the owners are LOOSING it. As far as I see, it's nothing to do with the owners, but rather the breeders fault for selling chicks too young before they could learn how to act from the adult tiels.
Then we have a member here who has a few pairs of tiels... one in particular which has successfully reproduced several lovely birds. He kept the offspring, and for the most part, the offspring are pretty well behaved... and they are getting up their in age. The offspring are learning from their parents, as well as learning from the humans (in a sense).
Which brings me to the point... are we destroying birds because we are handraising them? Thus not allowing them to learn how to be birds? And are we destroying them because we are selling them right after being weaned? Thus, the blame isn't on us, but on the breeders...
Certainly, it's one thing if the parents are plucking, mutilating, killing, or neglecting the chicks (thus they probably shouldn't be bred possibly) but it's another thing when they are GOOD parents. Certainly, parent raised birds can be just as good as handraised, given time and training... likewise, there are many handraised birds without issues...
I'm just interested in everyone elses opinion on this matter.
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Birds - Are we destroying them?
by MFids on Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:56 pm
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by featheredtreasures on Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:02 pm
You have a really good point and I think its a difficult subject. There are people who Im sure are going to have very strong opinions for both sides.
I havent done a lot of research into it myself but I know several breeders in my bird club who are trying what they call "co-parenting". I guess a lot of it depends on the parrot parents themselves if its going to work. But instead of pulling a baby from the nest at say 4 weeks old, these breeders are leaving the babies for 10 to 12 weeks old, that way they are "learning" a lot more from their parents. Then once they are pulled the breeder works on taming the bird some, letting it fully fledge etc. They say the chances of a more well rounded, well adjusted baby are highter with co-parenting. Again, I havent looked into it and am sure there is a lot more to it, but it does make sense.
I havent done a lot of research into it myself but I know several breeders in my bird club who are trying what they call "co-parenting". I guess a lot of it depends on the parrot parents themselves if its going to work. But instead of pulling a baby from the nest at say 4 weeks old, these breeders are leaving the babies for 10 to 12 weeks old, that way they are "learning" a lot more from their parents. Then once they are pulled the breeder works on taming the bird some, letting it fully fledge etc. They say the chances of a more well rounded, well adjusted baby are highter with co-parenting. Again, I havent looked into it and am sure there is a lot more to it, but it does make sense.
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by MFids on Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:47 pm
I realise I may get some strong views on this... There's always exceptions to the rule, of course. I've heard of co-parenting but not so much in the large species due to the fact that some of the larger species of parrots can be very aggressive during breeding season.
It makes me wonder about the "terrible twos" where-in the birds may be going through sexual maturity, or at least mental maturity (not sure how else to say it), and if leaving with the biological parents (yet continually handling the chick) if this would make any difference in the bird as an adult. Casey is my only handraised bird that I've had since she was young. The rest were parent raised or I got them well into their adult-hood. Like I said, I NEVER had any issues with Casey.
I know this may sound rude and I may get bashed for it, but I'm actually interested in taking on a parent raised bird, or a handraised bird that is kept near it's parents (preferrably parent raised birds) a few months after being weaned and continually handled... and then taking that bird home and seeing how that bird goes through the "terrible twos". Take it up a notch, and get a bird that is KNOWN for BAD terrible twos... i.e. a sun conure, a jenday, or some sort of large cockatoo... although considering I'm not particularly interested in sun's or jendays but would love to have a companion 'too someday... however, I'd first have to take into consideration if I could handle a species known as a "problem bird", if I'd have the time, the money, the space, the resources, etc.... and I'd have to be able to find a breeder who would allow the chick to be parent raised and kept with/near the parents for a few months after weaning (with handling) or one who would handraise and tame a chick, and keep near the parents for a few months after weaning (of course, this I would then pay the breeder for "boarding" the chick until the time of pickup).
The bird, although a "test subject", would be treated as any fid should be, of course, cared for and loved as part of the family.
It makes me wonder about the "terrible twos" where-in the birds may be going through sexual maturity, or at least mental maturity (not sure how else to say it), and if leaving with the biological parents (yet continually handling the chick) if this would make any difference in the bird as an adult. Casey is my only handraised bird that I've had since she was young. The rest were parent raised or I got them well into their adult-hood. Like I said, I NEVER had any issues with Casey.
I know this may sound rude and I may get bashed for it, but I'm actually interested in taking on a parent raised bird, or a handraised bird that is kept near it's parents (preferrably parent raised birds) a few months after being weaned and continually handled... and then taking that bird home and seeing how that bird goes through the "terrible twos". Take it up a notch, and get a bird that is KNOWN for BAD terrible twos... i.e. a sun conure, a jenday, or some sort of large cockatoo... although considering I'm not particularly interested in sun's or jendays but would love to have a companion 'too someday... however, I'd first have to take into consideration if I could handle a species known as a "problem bird", if I'd have the time, the money, the space, the resources, etc.... and I'd have to be able to find a breeder who would allow the chick to be parent raised and kept with/near the parents for a few months after weaning (with handling) or one who would handraise and tame a chick, and keep near the parents for a few months after weaning (of course, this I would then pay the breeder for "boarding" the chick until the time of pickup).
The bird, although a "test subject", would be treated as any fid should be, of course, cared for and loved as part of the family.
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by Featherkeeper on Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:43 am
Monica, you bring up several valid points that, I believe, have possibly crossed the minds of many breeders.
The theory you present is relatively new in comparison to the many years that baby birds have been hand fed by breeders. This concept of co-parenting has only been around for a few years so enough data hasn't been collected to make a concrete, educated and experienced opinion.
To my way of thinking, one of the biggest factors that determines the "future" of a hand fed bird is how the bird was hand fed, the amount of quality time and social interaction that baby received as it was being weaned and what species of bird is in question. I guess this is where the term "good breeder vs bad breeder" comes from.
It's one thing to feed a baby and sustain it's life and it's another to give the baby nurturing and attention during the feeding session. Many breeders will say that they don't have the time since they do it on such a large scale. I say that it's critical to the successful development of the bird and cannot be skimped or compromised.
One thing to keep in mind is that often times the bird is raised well by the breeder, but it is sold or adopted into a home where the individual or family isn't savvy enough in bird care, behavior and psychological management of the particular species they acquired. One can only do so much to educate a prospective home. You do the best you can and then that's sometimes not good enough. Then there are those babies that are sold out-of-nest and some to pet or bird stores. You have no control after they leave your possession. Not every bird home shares the passion for their birds as many of us do. When the bird starts to display neurotic or negative behavior it is re-homed and the problem is just passed on to someone else.
Creating a well-adjusted baby bird that will grow into a well-adjusted adult isn't easy. There are some species of parrots that are know to not make good pets, yet breeders continue to breed them and pass them off as "ideal." Opinions will vary as to what species this applies.
I have not co-parented any of my babies up to this point. I have thought about it and realize that there are many benefits to birds that experience the interaction with their parents. Many valuable skills are taught this way.
I may do it in the future, but not really sure what species that I raise that I would be willing to try this experiment with.
Thanks for bringing up this subject as I think more and more breeders (hopefully) will consider doing this and then more information and data will become available. The future of aviculture is always changing and progress is made when theories and beliefs change with them.
The theory you present is relatively new in comparison to the many years that baby birds have been hand fed by breeders. This concept of co-parenting has only been around for a few years so enough data hasn't been collected to make a concrete, educated and experienced opinion.
To my way of thinking, one of the biggest factors that determines the "future" of a hand fed bird is how the bird was hand fed, the amount of quality time and social interaction that baby received as it was being weaned and what species of bird is in question. I guess this is where the term "good breeder vs bad breeder" comes from.
It's one thing to feed a baby and sustain it's life and it's another to give the baby nurturing and attention during the feeding session. Many breeders will say that they don't have the time since they do it on such a large scale. I say that it's critical to the successful development of the bird and cannot be skimped or compromised.
One thing to keep in mind is that often times the bird is raised well by the breeder, but it is sold or adopted into a home where the individual or family isn't savvy enough in bird care, behavior and psychological management of the particular species they acquired. One can only do so much to educate a prospective home. You do the best you can and then that's sometimes not good enough. Then there are those babies that are sold out-of-nest and some to pet or bird stores. You have no control after they leave your possession. Not every bird home shares the passion for their birds as many of us do. When the bird starts to display neurotic or negative behavior it is re-homed and the problem is just passed on to someone else.
Creating a well-adjusted baby bird that will grow into a well-adjusted adult isn't easy. There are some species of parrots that are know to not make good pets, yet breeders continue to breed them and pass them off as "ideal." Opinions will vary as to what species this applies.
I have not co-parented any of my babies up to this point. I have thought about it and realize that there are many benefits to birds that experience the interaction with their parents. Many valuable skills are taught this way.
I may do it in the future, but not really sure what species that I raise that I would be willing to try this experiment with.
Thanks for bringing up this subject as I think more and more breeders (hopefully) will consider doing this and then more information and data will become available. The future of aviculture is always changing and progress is made when theories and beliefs change with them.
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Re: Birds - Are we destroying them?
by petdiva on Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:55 am
Just a couple thoughts...
I think it's best when babies are left with the parents for at least a couple weeks, if not longer. I'm always concerned when I see that a breeder pulls all chicks and feeds from day 1, especially the larger birds like cockatoos. Although the intent is to provide tame loving birds, I wonder if it's not sometimes confusing the birds. I hear comments like, "this bird thinks it's a person." Birds need to be birds, and we shouldn't be treating them like little people with feathers.
Another thing I have always questioned is the early age that some of the larger species are weaned and sold. I've seen the large cockatoos and macaws advertised at 4 months old. When these birds would stay with their parents for 1-2 years, I wonder how it impacts these young to go to their new homes at such an early age.
I think it's best when babies are left with the parents for at least a couple weeks, if not longer. I'm always concerned when I see that a breeder pulls all chicks and feeds from day 1, especially the larger birds like cockatoos. Although the intent is to provide tame loving birds, I wonder if it's not sometimes confusing the birds. I hear comments like, "this bird thinks it's a person." Birds need to be birds, and we shouldn't be treating them like little people with feathers.
Another thing I have always questioned is the early age that some of the larger species are weaned and sold. I've seen the large cockatoos and macaws advertised at 4 months old. When these birds would stay with their parents for 1-2 years, I wonder how it impacts these young to go to their new homes at such an early age.
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by marky on Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:15 am
There are other variable in this issue to. Personality of the bird and enviroment it goes into.When a new bird owner takes a just weined baby home . Gives it alot of attention and when the newness wheres off the bird is left alone alot and starts screeming . and birds have personalitys just like people . Ive seen nasty mean birds from the egg .I ve raised babies from the egg and have parent raised birds and both are sweet. The enviroment a baby bird goes into makes a BIG impact on how the bird will turn out ,wether hand or parent raised birds. It just like us parents and the kids we raise. As they say " good kids can go bad" .I do feel the longer the baby is with the parents the better it is because of all the social graces it learns and its better to get a baby that is well past weining and on its own.It will adapt to its new home easier. But it is better to handle the bird some before you get it to get an idea of what its like .No hard facts just what Ive seen through the years.
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by MFids on Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:45 pm
Indeed, there is a lot into handraising a bird... but people have also gotten birds that have been well raised, people who are ideal parronts, and they still end up having issues with birds who should otherwise be perfectly happy. Featherkeeper, if you do end up co-parenting I'd be interested in your findings!
petdiva, I agree with leaving the chicks with the parents for as long as possible if one is to handraise the chicks. Casey was indeed handraised from day one of hatching... she was actually probably hatched in an incubator. At the time I got her, I was looking into getting one or two cockatiels, but she ended up being a gift from a friend of the family who knew I was interested in birds. I never knew about Casey until she was home!
I can understand if breeders pull chicks from the nest at an extremely early age (under 1 week of age - or pulling the eggs) if the parents are bad parents... but that's kind of off topic.
And as for wild macaws and toos staying with their parents when young? Yeah, I've questioned that as well... which is the idea behind keeping a chick with the breeder and preferrably around it's parents a while after weaning.
Marky, I agree. I've heard of a few stories of people buying just weaned birds, or birds who have been weaned for at least 2 weeks regressing... as well as "bad birds" in new homes althoug while at the breeders those same birds were the sweetest birds possible! And yet, the new owner never really got to interact and play with the bird until they brought that bird home... thus the bird reacts because it's scared.
petdiva, I agree with leaving the chicks with the parents for as long as possible if one is to handraise the chicks. Casey was indeed handraised from day one of hatching... she was actually probably hatched in an incubator. At the time I got her, I was looking into getting one or two cockatiels, but she ended up being a gift from a friend of the family who knew I was interested in birds. I never knew about Casey until she was home!
I can understand if breeders pull chicks from the nest at an extremely early age (under 1 week of age - or pulling the eggs) if the parents are bad parents... but that's kind of off topic.
And as for wild macaws and toos staying with their parents when young? Yeah, I've questioned that as well... which is the idea behind keeping a chick with the breeder and preferrably around it's parents a while after weaning.
Marky, I agree. I've heard of a few stories of people buying just weaned birds, or birds who have been weaned for at least 2 weeks regressing... as well as "bad birds" in new homes althoug while at the breeders those same birds were the sweetest birds possible! And yet, the new owner never really got to interact and play with the bird until they brought that bird home... thus the bird reacts because it's scared.
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by lilla on Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:00 pm
This is indeed a sensitive subject. As someone who used to breed african species, along with others, there was no way co-parenting could be attempted with the shy african birds or with amazons, etc. However, for some of the smaller birds who are more "easy going" shall we say, then I think it is a novel idea.
I do not think we are destroying our birds. Most breeders try their best to socialize their youngsters well during the rearing process and secure the best homes possible. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee what happens when they leave the aviary and go to their new homes. Like other animals that crowd the shelters, I believe some people simply do not spend time researching exactly what they are looking for and buy on impulse.
I have heard that in Sweden they do not handfeed, but one really doesn't need to handfeed tiels or keets to get good pets. I do wonder though how they fare when faced with a parent raised large macaw or a hissing cockatoo?
Sally
Idaho
I do not think we are destroying our birds. Most breeders try their best to socialize their youngsters well during the rearing process and secure the best homes possible. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee what happens when they leave the aviary and go to their new homes. Like other animals that crowd the shelters, I believe some people simply do not spend time researching exactly what they are looking for and buy on impulse.
I have heard that in Sweden they do not handfeed, but one really doesn't need to handfeed tiels or keets to get good pets. I do wonder though how they fare when faced with a parent raised large macaw or a hissing cockatoo?
Sally
Idaho
Lilla
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by MFids on Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:15 pm
Lilla, I doubt it's always the breeders fault, or the owners fault, when a bird suddenly goes "wacko". Certainly a lot of things are only natural to happen in the course of the birds life, but other things certainly are not. I've heard of well experienced bird owners buying from reputable breeders, getting the sweetest bird, and then within a few months they need help due to excessive screaming, plucking, or otherwise. Each bird and each environment and each person is indeed variable to a big degree....
I heard of one person in Sweden who supposedly has two adult amazons, both parent raised, and both EXTREMELY sweet birds! So, I'm not sure! I haven't really heard much about large birds in Sweden as it seems that small and medium birds are most common and popular. I love their law in cage sizes! Fantastic!
I heard of one person in Sweden who supposedly has two adult amazons, both parent raised, and both EXTREMELY sweet birds! So, I'm not sure! I haven't really heard much about large birds in Sweden as it seems that small and medium birds are most common and popular. I love their law in cage sizes! Fantastic!
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Great topic and I agree especially with Marky
by white67 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:25 am
I have two parent raised untame Blue Front males that are mature and one decided to be a pet practically over night with my daughter, he is a comic and what a talker now he almost has a conversation. I also have a Parent raised female Whitefaced Lutino whom was a year old when I got the parents and her in same cage. Sophi now is a loving pet within a really short time, her parents were Not Tame at All either. On the flip side of this subject I have a Parent raised Ringneck whom to this day will not tame and her parents are Untame but not flighty. It Does have alot to do with personalities.
God loved the birds and made trees;man loved the birds and made cages
God loved the birds and made trees;man loved the birds and made cages
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Re: Birds - Are we destroying them?
by petdiva on Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:55 am
As far as coparenting goes... I don't know how it would work if you keep the baby with it's parents. I heard of a breeder who has pets of the same species she raises. After she pulls the babies for hand feeding, she moves them to the same room as her pets. Her pets like the babies, and the babies learn from her pets. The babies watch the adults and learn from them. She also keeps her babies longer than many breeders. This would only work with some pets though. I have my doubts whether my first African Grey would nice to the babies. So far, he doesn't like any of my other birds, which includes another African Grey. Sometimes I think it's jealousy because he was the first bird.
white67 - Sometimes a bird seems to choose a person for no apparent reason. Your daughter is very lucky to share this connection with a bird that was essentially wild before he chose her.
white67 - Sometimes a bird seems to choose a person for no apparent reason. Your daughter is very lucky to share this connection with a bird that was essentially wild before he chose her.
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by daybird on Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:42 pm
As the parrots we are breeding move more and more towards true domestication, we'll see less and less need to handfeed a baby to make it a truly tame pet.
When was the last time a cat or dog breeder advocated pulling kittens and puppies before their eyes were open and bottle feeding them completely apart from the parents in order for the babies to be tame pets?
It must be done if one is to have a tame raccoon or fox but not with animals that are considered domesticated.
My wife and I were having the discussion last night about "breeds." Dogs and cats have "breeds." Farm animals have "breeds." Domestic poultry have "breeds." All breeds of dogs are scientifically the same species. All breeds of goats are scientifically the same species. All breeds of chicken are scientifically the same species.
With the caged birds we keep, only canaries and parakeets (English Budgies) have remarkably distinguishable physical characteristics being bred. Sure, some cockatiels are being bred now that are much, much larger than they normally are.
Apart from color mutations, all birds within a species retain the same original body type. All sun conures are still built much the same with the same feather structure. Even hybrid macaws look very similar to each parent.
As more and more generations are produced in our spare bedrooms and backyard aviaries, each subsequent generation will, hopefully, become tamer and tamer. This is how "co-parenting" the smaller, more easily bred species is working so well.
Ask most any dog trainer and he/she will tell you that one of the biggest problems faced is with seperation anxiety. The dog barks all day. The dog pees and poops as soon as you leave the room. The dog destroys the living room furniture when you go to work.
The problem with the seperation anxiety, in most part, is caused by breeders taking these cute little fluff balls away from the mom and siblings and selling them as soon as they can chew solid food. The puppy must learn to behave like a dog and act/react in a pack with it's siblings with it's mother there to teach it.
I hypothesis, like the above posters, that it may neither be a bad breeder nor a bad buyer that is causing the results of neurotic and self mutilating screaming parrots but the way in which we have unknowingly been raising baby birds.
When was the last time a cat or dog breeder advocated pulling kittens and puppies before their eyes were open and bottle feeding them completely apart from the parents in order for the babies to be tame pets?
It must be done if one is to have a tame raccoon or fox but not with animals that are considered domesticated.
My wife and I were having the discussion last night about "breeds." Dogs and cats have "breeds." Farm animals have "breeds." Domestic poultry have "breeds." All breeds of dogs are scientifically the same species. All breeds of goats are scientifically the same species. All breeds of chicken are scientifically the same species.
With the caged birds we keep, only canaries and parakeets (English Budgies) have remarkably distinguishable physical characteristics being bred. Sure, some cockatiels are being bred now that are much, much larger than they normally are.
Apart from color mutations, all birds within a species retain the same original body type. All sun conures are still built much the same with the same feather structure. Even hybrid macaws look very similar to each parent.
As more and more generations are produced in our spare bedrooms and backyard aviaries, each subsequent generation will, hopefully, become tamer and tamer. This is how "co-parenting" the smaller, more easily bred species is working so well.
Ask most any dog trainer and he/she will tell you that one of the biggest problems faced is with seperation anxiety. The dog barks all day. The dog pees and poops as soon as you leave the room. The dog destroys the living room furniture when you go to work.
The problem with the seperation anxiety, in most part, is caused by breeders taking these cute little fluff balls away from the mom and siblings and selling them as soon as they can chew solid food. The puppy must learn to behave like a dog and act/react in a pack with it's siblings with it's mother there to teach it.
I hypothesis, like the above posters, that it may neither be a bad breeder nor a bad buyer that is causing the results of neurotic and self mutilating screaming parrots but the way in which we have unknowingly been raising baby birds.
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by MFids on Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:19 am
Most cats and dogs are raised around humans to begin with... and many are handled by humans as they grow up... thus they are used to people. The same can be done with birds so that they are solely parent raised but grow up used to people and thus at least tolerate handling if not more. I've done so with bourkes. If the animal is not raised around humans then they will be skittish of humans, doesn't matter if it's a bird, cat or dog.
We must also keep in mind the difference between a mammals mind and a birds mind. They think differently, thus they will act differently with humans.
There's also breeding done with lovebirds that are changing how they appear... called the "longfeather".
Indeed, much in the way we raise them....
We must also keep in mind the difference between a mammals mind and a birds mind. They think differently, thus they will act differently with humans.
There's also breeding done with lovebirds that are changing how they appear... called the "longfeather".
Indeed, much in the way we raise them....
Monica & Fids
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by daybird on Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:54 pm
Agreed...mostly.
I do appreciate that dogs are incredibly different than parrots. However, it's not entirely fair to group all mammals and all birds together. My dogs and my goats think entirely differently and I'm not sure that my sugar gliders think much at all...except where their next meal is coming from. My African grey certainly thinks differently than my chickens.
I was agreeing with your post and trying to make similarities. I was not trying to imply that captive raised parrots are significantly similar to domestic cats and dogs.
And, I didn't know about the lovebirds. I would love to see pictures of those. I'm terribly interested in long feathered birds. I have silkie doves with nice long feathers. I also have frizzled chickens where every feather curves backwards and sebastapol geese with curly feathers. I have several silkie chickens whose feathers lack enough barbels so their feathers don't stick together properly and I'm on a waiting list for some silkie ducks.
I do appreciate that dogs are incredibly different than parrots. However, it's not entirely fair to group all mammals and all birds together. My dogs and my goats think entirely differently and I'm not sure that my sugar gliders think much at all...except where their next meal is coming from. My African grey certainly thinks differently than my chickens.
I was agreeing with your post and trying to make similarities. I was not trying to imply that captive raised parrots are significantly similar to domestic cats and dogs.
And, I didn't know about the lovebirds. I would love to see pictures of those. I'm terribly interested in long feathered birds. I have silkie doves with nice long feathers. I also have frizzled chickens where every feather curves backwards and sebastapol geese with curly feathers. I have several silkie chickens whose feathers lack enough barbels so their feathers don't stick together properly and I'm on a waiting list for some silkie ducks.
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by MFids on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:32 pm
Indeed, I understand.
As I see the "long feather" peachface lovebirds, it's not so much that they have longer feathers but the fact that they are so much bigger than their regular counterparts... much like the english budgie is to the normal type. There colors may also be more intense than the regular type...
Pics of Long Feathers
http://africanlovebirdsociety.myphotoal ... me=album21
http://www.angelinasnest.com/Peachfaced%20Lovebirds.htm
http://www.angelinasnest.com/Photo%20Gallery.html
Sites with info on Longfeathers (aka standard roseicollis)
http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolou ... ngfpf.html
http://www.parrotzoo.com/photo1.htm
http://www.africanlovebirdsociety.com/g ... ather.html
http://users.accesscomm.ca/parrot/articles/LFT.htm
http://www.lienluu.com/lb/pages/long/gallery.php#
http://users.accesscomm.ca/parrot/SB/SB.htm
http://users.accesscomm.ca/parrot/articles/LFTQ.htm
As I see the "long feather" peachface lovebirds, it's not so much that they have longer feathers but the fact that they are so much bigger than their regular counterparts... much like the english budgie is to the normal type. There colors may also be more intense than the regular type...
Pics of Long Feathers
http://africanlovebirdsociety.myphotoal ... me=album21
http://www.angelinasnest.com/Peachfaced%20Lovebirds.htm
http://www.angelinasnest.com/Photo%20Gallery.html
Sites with info on Longfeathers (aka standard roseicollis)
http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolou ... ngfpf.html
http://www.parrotzoo.com/photo1.htm
http://www.africanlovebirdsociety.com/g ... ather.html
http://users.accesscomm.ca/parrot/articles/LFT.htm
http://www.lienluu.com/lb/pages/long/gallery.php#
http://users.accesscomm.ca/parrot/SB/SB.htm
http://users.accesscomm.ca/parrot/articles/LFTQ.htm
Monica & Fids
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from them."
"I am willing to make the mistakes if someone else is willing to learn
from them."
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