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I was wondering if fellow breeders out there would share their opinion on non refundable deposits on babies. I had an incident recently with a potential buyer on a blue throated macaw baby I was handfeeding. Long story short but the guy turned out to be real nut job and drove me crazy. He wanted the bird/he didnt want the bird/ wanted the bird shipped/ then wanted the bird picked up. He went round and round for weeks and drove me nuts. Kept putting off sending me a deposit and I informed him I would not wait for him to make up his mind. He finally sends the deposit and was made aware by my sales agreement and my website that the deposit was non refundable unless I could not deliver as planned. The he had one reason or another why he wanted or did not want the bird. In the meantime I lost potential sales on the bird. Finally decides he does not want the bird and demands a refund{a month has almost gone by}. His reason is the airport he would have to go to his too far{three hrs}. I told him that I would not refund his deposit per my contract but at my discretion per my contract might refund him if I found another buyer. In the meantime he files a claim agaisnt me with paypal saying I didnt deliver the bird as promised even though the paypal transaction clearly said deposit not sale of bird. I won the dispute and they would not refund him his money. He screwed up my paypal acct for close to a week. They froze it while investigating. Anyway-I finally think the bird may sell and am wondering if I should give him his deposit back or not.

Hmm... Most deposits are non-refundable, but I personally am pretty flexible about that. I personally would refund the deposit once the bird is sold and in a new home, minus paypal fees and any other fees/penalties that you have incurred. And time spent. If you don't think it's fair to give a refund, then don't. It's your call and the law is on your side.

Don't refund the deposit, thats the whole point of having a non-refundable deposit, to weed out the tirekickers and time wasters, like you said you could of sold the bird before, and lost sales, and never wait for a deposit, give someone a reasonable amount of time to send it but let other interested parties know that if deposit isn't received by such and such date you will accept a deposit from them, you got to protect yourself, your a small private breeder, not Walmart.

I would not refund it in this situation. Had you been able to find another buyer quickly, then refunding the deposit would be the ethical thing to do, though you surely were legally entitled to keep it. But after losing sales and having to deal with the Paypal issues, to say nothing of the stress of the harrassment and nuisance, no way I'd do the jerk a favor. Calculate what you are due for the additional time you cared for the baby and apply the deposit to that. If there's a dime left over, mail him that with a pithy explanation.

Paca

In this case, I would not refund the deposit. If you had been able to find another home, and if he had not caused problems for you, I would have said maybe.

Someone else had an instance like this a while back. The buyer said they couldn't come up with the money when it came time to get the baby because their car broke down. Then it sounded like maybe they would be able to scrape together the money after all. In that case, I would be fearful that they would buy the baby in hopes of being able to resell it and not lose any money. Personally, I'd like to know where my baby was going and be comfortable about it. Also, if they had to scrape together the money, would they be able to afford to take care of the baby properly if they kept it?

I also have a non-refundable deposit policy - outlined on my website. However, I am very flexible depending on the circumstances. In your case, I would probably opt not to refund the deposit due to what you went thru with this nut job.

Good Luck!

Sally

I also have a non-refundable deposit policy but I have never had anyone back out so I guess I don't know what I would do if they did...

I would definitely not give him his deposit back in this situation.

I wouldn't give him his deposit back. I put a deposit on a B&G 3 years ago and then had a really bad accident. I would not have been able to travel the 3 1/2 hours to the airport to get the bird. I let the seller know that and although she told me that she would refund my deposit, she had been holding the bird for 2 months for me.

It wasn't fair of her to have possibly lost out on another sale. I asked her to please keep the money that I would feel better about it. She eventually did sell the bird.

I travel to JFK or Newark to pick birds up and thats almost a 4 hour drive for me. If you want a bird bad enough, you'll travel for it. Don't give him back the deposit. He should have done his homework beforehand. He caused you enough trouble.

Laurie

Well, you do state on your website a "non-refundable deposit".

I had a guy who was very wishy washy with me this past 2007 season and I got to the point where I had enough and then blurted in the email if he did not want to wait then I would refund him his money and he could go look else where... now why I said that to him, I have no idea when I also have non-refundable deposit policy... he just ticked me off. So later he still wanted his deposit back and thought he deserved it back too. He had purchased another bird while he had a depost on a bird from me... in which was a totally different bird and more expensive but he says after the whole thing is over and he got his money back that he will perhaps buy from me next year.... huh, not in my life time he won't!

It's very hard to deal with people like that, and they should understand that non-refundable is just what is says. I am going to produce paper work for buyers to read and sign and I will be mailing it to them before they can even make a deposit .... this type of thing has to stop going on. because they usually come back on you and just say that they did not know or they did not read that on the website.

Another thing I let slide was I have a Quarantine Form that I have on my website that people are suppose to fill out and turn into me at some point by the time they pick up their baby.... not one person turned that form into me... not one single person from this past baby season. This tells me most likely they did not really read my policies and understand everything ... things will have to be more difficult to qualify for my babies... even if they are just Pionus. This coming season I am not producing any babies for sale but when I do end up having some... I'll get a little tougher on making sure people understand the things they should be understanding.

Jan R. wrote:... I have a Quarantine Form that I have on my website that people are suppose to fill out and turn into me ... things will have to be more difficult to qualify for my babies... even if they are just Pionus ... I'll get a little tougher on making sure people understand the things they should be understanding.

Bravo, Jan!!!!! Pionus are wonderful birds and you're obviously an exemplary breeder.

Respectfully, Paca