upatsix.com - Your Source For Pet Bird Information

Hey everyone, I've been lurking here for a while as I research breeders, and I wanted to mention some things about some of the breeder websites I've seen. From a potential customer's perspective, I've got some suggestions for you.

- Please post pictures of your aviaries and nurseries on your website. A lot of you have closed aviaries, and if you don't at least show me any pictures, then I worry that "closed aviary" means "I don't want you to see how bad my facilities are".

-Recent pictures of your breeder pairs. It would be awesome if I didn't have to ask for these. Take pictures every year and put them on your website with dates.

-Availability Lists - most breeders have these on their websites, but they don't put a date saying when it was last updated. Put a date so that I know that the information that I'm seeing is not from last year.

-A picture of you. I like to see my potential breeder's face.

-Credit card payments. Several breeder websites mention that they take credit card/paypal payments for an extra percentage. It is illegal to charge extra for credit card payments. It is also against the Paypal user agreement. One website I saw charged an extra 6%!! No thanks! Charge the same for everyone, and work the fees into your price. If you discourage people from using credit cards (and the customer protection they provide) then it tells me that you are going to hard to deal with if there's a dispute. Those that happily take credit cards I feel like I can trust more and will stand by their birds. Google checkout is an option for taking credit cards with lower fees, fyi.

Thanks for listening!

As for myself being a breeder, I list all my current pricing and availabilty and most current updated pages. I show photos of myself on the About Us page. I show photos of my aivaries. I even show the aviary as we were building it. It is hard to get any sort of perspective as to how it looks. If I was buying babies, I would really careless about seeing the breeder's aviary... seeing the parent birds don't tell you much either. I do go onto websites too and see things and is very hard to tell how current the page is and often pages are outdated.

I do not charge extra for PayPal fees to buyers... some people do try to pass on the cost to buyers... which you are right it should not happen at all that way.

Some Breeders are MAP Certified... www.modelaviculture.org which means "Model Aviculture Program"... they have certain guidelines that many breeders are certified under their program. It's also about good record keeping and the concept behind a "closed aviary" is not because it might be dirty ... it is merely to prevent people from bringing in any disease, plus it could even protect you too from you possibly spreading something to your birds if an aviary did have an unknown disease going on... for the most part it is to protect the breeder's parrots health and well being. Even I follow a closed aviary concept just as many others do I am not MAP certified and because I do not have a specified or designated Nursery, I probably would not ever qualify because of that reason and I use my kitchen area to raise my babies when hand feeding them and they play on the counter... that would be a no-no under MAP guidelines because ideally you should not share the same space in that manner with the babies as you do for yourself.

Although it is nice to be able to see photos, it won't tell you much on the aviary and the birds in it. That's not what you are after anyway .... all you need to see are photos of the babies and perhaps in the nursery or how ever they are raised. Some breeders allow you to their house and some let you see babies as how they are raised... some breeders will not even let you come to their place... some will want to meet you at a public place for you to pick up your birds.

Jan, I think yours is one of the best websites available. I appreciate all the information included about the construction of your aviary. I respect your opinions and thank you for the time you take helping others.

But I do agree with the original poster and wish more people would use some good, old fashioned customer service when building websites, posting ads and replying to emails.

Why is it so difficult to post the state you reside in? I HATE reading ads that simply state "no shipping" (don't even ask) and the poster gives on idication where they're located.

Daybird... I agree about many sites out there do not put dates and the location and that too I do not like to see because viewers have no way of knowing how current some of the data is.

The shipping part ... well after I first started out with my website, I plainly stated on the Baby Bird page right up near the top No Shipping but people prceeded to email me still asking about shipping and if I have any Babies avialable. I keep my baby bird page current and what I find mostly is some people are just too lazy to read anything and they would rather ask for direct answers when it is plainly written on the page. I'd swear that some people head straight for the Contact page and just start emailing a person without really scouting out the information... I can usually tell by the way people ask me the questions they do.

I find myself not sticking to a website when browsing if they can not put dates, location and what their names are. As for phone number, I do not place one on my site because if I did, people would be calling me all the time. All my sales are done from my site and through email pretty much, sometimes I will talk to people if they feel they need to talk to me like when getting ready to purchase a baby and they want a better contact, then sure I use the phone then.

I have to agree with Jan most people go directly to the contact info. On my site I place the date page is updated. On the babies I will put date hatched, date photo taken etc and have people that email me and ask how old that baby is. They don't take the time to read anything. They see the pretty birdy and head to email.

I agree. On our home page it tells where we are at and how far we are from major places, I still get the "Where are you and how far are you from....?"
On our Nursery page it tells what babies we have for sale, price, deposit required, pictures (from being pulled to current), pics of the parents and hatch dates. The pictures usually have the date they were taken on them.
On our Nursery page each pair has a pic (for the most part, a few are retired so no pics yet), if they are working the box, have eggs or babies, etc. I think it's pretty clear, not confusing like some sites I've seen that are color coded for eggs/babies/etc. Either we have eggs/babies or we don't. If there's nothing under a pair, then there's nothing to report. Yet the same questions "Do you have babies, how much, pics of the parents, etc."
I try to keep our site simple and to the point of what people are looking for, etc. It's not 100 pages of different things. People really need to look for 2 minutes before emailing and asking questions that have been answered on the site.

I understand the frustration with getting questions that you've already answered via your websites. But you might consider that they got your email address from another source other than the website, like a reference on a newsgroup, message board or whatever. In any case, it can't hurt to be patient with a customer's questions.

I always respond to questions, even if I get asked the same one 100 times, lol. It gets frustrating if the person becomes impatient if I haven't responded in the first 10 minutes after getting an email. People have to realize we are not always at the computer and if we respond when we get an email, it doesn't mean we sit here hitting refresh every 2 seconds waiting for another one (well NOT all the time )

Although I do have breeder pairs, I don't have a website.

I will agree with you on posting a location. One thing I find annoying in the ad section on this site is that people will not post their location. I don't really care about the specific town or zip code. I just want a state, a general idea on how far I'd need to drive to pick up a bird. For ads that don't post a state, I don't even contact the person. It's generally a waste of my time.

If I did have a website, I would not post a picture of myself on the internet. Quite frankly, I am a private person for the most part. If someone needs to see a picture of me in order for me to sell them a bird, then I'd rather they go elsewhere. There are a lot of weirdos out there. When I did have babies for sale, for every legitimate email I received, I also received easily 20+ scam or weird emails. I do not give out my phone number until I know that the person contacting me is for real. With today's technology, it is too easy to get information such as a street address just by looking up the phone number online. I've got my safety, not to mention my pets' and breeders' safety, to keep in mind. I know people who have had their beloved birds stolen out of their homes.

Well I for one do very limited business over the web, and from last years totals only sold one baby that way (online here with Up @ Six,) I had over 18k dollars in (taxable) sales. When I look at my fellow breeders and see all the time and effort put into these web sites I have to wonder; to whom or why do they spend so much of their valuable energy and resources going through these motions in the first place.

If someone is solely basing their research and buying decision over the web does that short change the process?

Now granted, I've been in the aviculture sciences for more than 40 years and my family for more than 300 so the thought of a wholly based internet business is fairly new. But the old ways still prove to be one of the best methods of raising and finding homes for our feathered friends. So if you ask me where should one start looking to either add to their existing aviary or just plumb new to the aviculture field in general I have these exact same things to reply to them either by e-mail or face to face.

I tell them

1) Go to the library and read everything you can get your hands on with regards to the species or birds in general (not all material is available on the web as of yet and some of the finest books written are at your local library.)

2) Volunteer at a local shelter for birds, if you find a bird that needs a home and you get along with the species then we are successful. You see it is always my first recommendation to re-home an existing bird than "SELL" a bird.

3) Join an organization like AFA which not only provides education but pairs you up with a local bird club where the chances are you will find the bird you are looking for. Avoid clubs that do nothing to educate their members and opt only to provide Expo's or Bird Fairs (money making opportunities for the club) which only promote the hard feeling between the general public and aviculture in general and make us out to be Bird Farms and only looking a for a quick buck.

4) (now this my only web based recommendation) join a bird group like Up @ Six, or others like found on Yahoo, where you can ask away all the questions under the sun and are close enough to either visit or help with the weaning of your future baby bird that you want so much!

As for pictures, what do you think my customers would say if "I asked them for pictures of their home or the faces of their family members and other pets."

The lay out of my aviary (all three of them) with the equipment and facilities are a best kept secret from over 40 years of experience. I consider it "my company's" intellectual property and for anybody working in any of my facilities I require a non-competition agreement. So the visiting of an aviary may not just be what some people think at all.

Now to address your last complaint about credit cards, wow you sure bought into the whole hype over credit cards! First you may charge additionally for the use of credit cards, have you not filled up your car with gas lately? Secondly the whole credit issue has been blown out of proportion in the last year. I have found several good people who don't own credit cards and many who do are thieves and liars. Pay Pal is a scam and anybody who takes checks has got to be out of their mind or hasn't read a news paper or watched their local news.

Purpleheart, it sounds like you don't need a website to do your business and that's fine. There are not a lot of birds for some reason where I live, not even a local rescue, and I've had to look for a breeder out of state. That's where the websites come in. I've been shopping.

So when I'm looking, I need to get a sense of what the breeder and their birds are like. I would not want to waste my time on a bird mill. I'm not looking for anyone's aviary secrets, I just want to see how clean their aviaries are kept, what conditions are the birds living in, stuff like that. I don't think that is much to ask, unless someone has something to hide.

As far as personal pictures go, as a customer, I feel more comfortable entrusting the large amount of money I'm about to send knowing that there is an actual person there, rather than a faceless business. I really enjoy seeing those breeders' website where the breeders show themselves with their birds. A picture is worth a 1000 words, and you can really get a sense of their connection and care. It's not a requirement, it's just something I like to see, and it's something that makes one breeder's website that much better over the others, in my opinion.

Credit cards - I haven't seen a gas station charge extra for gas in years - does that still happen where you live? Most places it is illegal, but I imagine there might be a few states left that do it. In any case, it is still against the user agreement for Visa/MC/Paypal. I'll have a business of my own online soon, so it's something I've looked into. You can google it yourself if you don't believe me.

[quote]If I did have a website, I would not post a picture of myself on the internet. Quite frankly, I am a private person for the most part. If someone needs to see a picture of me in order for me to sell them a bird, then I'd rather they go elsewhere. There are a lot of weirdos out there. When I did have babies for sale, for every legitimate email I received, I also received easily 20+ scam or weird emails. I do not give out my phone number until I know that the person contacting me is for real. With today's technology, it is too easy to get information such as a street address just by looking up the phone number online. I've got my safety, not to mention my pets' and breeders' safety, to keep in mind. I know people who have had their beloved birds stolen out of their homes.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. We live in a VERY rural area and a small town (under 600). I don't post our exact town or a picture of myself for this reason. There are a lot of weirdos out there. If emails and phone calls aren't enough to assure someone that there is a "person" on the other end, what is a picture going to do? Scammers steal pictures all the time and send.

As far as credit cards. I do charge the PayPal fees for accepting credit cards. I consider it a convenience if the buyer wants to send a deposit or payment that way instead of going to the post office and sending a money order (they charge a fee for the money order) it's their choice. Even getting your own money out of an ATM you pay a fee. So if someone doesn't want the hassle of running to a store for a money order, then they can pay the fee. Why should I eat the 2.00 or more for their convenience? Same way if I am sending money. I don't have a problem paying the fees if I don't feel like running to the store

tweetebirds wrote:As far as credit cards. I do charge the PayPal fees for accepting credit cards. I consider it a convenience if the buyer wants to send a deposit or payment that way instead of going to the post office and sending a money order (they charge a fee for the money order) it's their choice. Even getting your own money out of an ATM you pay a fee. So if someone doesn't want the hassle of running to a store for a money order, then they can pay the fee. Why should I eat the 2.00 or more for their convenience? Same way if I am sending money. I don't have a problem paying the fees if I don't feel like running to the store

Paypal user agreement:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cm ... ms-outside

No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.

You should eat the 2.00 for your customer's convenience as a cost of doing business. If you calculated your price point right, you wouldn't have to ask your customers to pay an extra fee. (And also, don't put your money in a bank that charges you fees to use the atm. That's just common sense.) Asking a customer to use a money order is very inconvenient for them, and puts them at risk if the transaction goes sour. It may be fine for you, but I would take my money elsewhere.

This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge

I meant handling fee. And the "fee" isn't 2.00. It's based on the AMOUNT of payment. When we ran another business if a customer used a credit card we would get charged a percentage of whatever the amount was for using the credit card service. Paypal is NO different.

As far as the bank, you are RIGHT I DON'T!! BUT if you use another ATM OTHER then YOUR bank, most charge a fee. We live in a SMALL town the ONLY ATM is NOT a bank owned ATM, it's the stores ATM so there is a fee (convenience fee) unless you want to drive 30 minutes to the bank.

[quote]Asking a customer to use a money order is very inconvenient for them, and puts them at risk if the transaction goes sour. It may be fine for you, but I would take my money elsewhere.[/quote]

You said it yourself. It's inconvenient, I don't see how that's the sellers problem. That's why I tell them if they are sending a money order to send it with delivery confirmation. Anyone can get ripped off using anything from postal money orders, checks to PayPal. I guess that's why you build a trust with who you are dealing with BEFORE dealing with them, get references, etc.

It IS fine for me, thank you Maybe you should deal with people locally to you.