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Hello all,

I am new to birds, though not new to pets, particularly cats. I became the girlfriend of a DYH (now being told "magna") through my job. He came to our office as a rescue from a patient, then moved in with me in May.

Not knowing anything, I had/continue to read everything I can find on their safety, food issues, behavior/behavioral problems....

Coming into the behaviors later in the game - safety and nutrition came first - I think I'm just looking for some reassurance of what my instincts are telling me.

He was neglected, likely abused, then in a house fire, then to Animal Control for a month, then to a very busy office. Pretty mean and hard to manage at first, very unpredictable, and did not just nip or pinch. I probably should have gotten stitches a few times. Over about 6 months, he has turned into a total shoulder bird, travels everywhere, generous with kisses, manageably territorial, and only minimally moody. I am his girlfriend, however, so when we're out, I caution people to approach slowly, do NOT try to pet, and give lots of praise in that silly, high-pitched voice. He will give kisses off my shoulder now, even to men, will flare and pin, but not bite if I say "no biting," and talks up a storm so that he can have his due audience. When we're with people he's familiar with, I make him "step up" to others then ignore the foot-wagging so that he will continue to be assured that I will expose him to people who are safe, and that I won't leave him.

Question is, am I setting both of us up for something terrible? I read about "never shouldering," but he's calmest and most affectionate when he is shouldered. "They'll fly," even though he's clipped, and goes everywhere, without trying to take off. We travel together - going to the coast this up coming week. We take showers. He mingles with my cats, and one got nipped when he shoved his face into Paco's, and when he tried to take Paco's apple slices. The other two just lay around him when he walking around the house. There's almost constant verbal interaction.

Does he just not know that he's supposed to be "worse" than he is, am I deluded, or does it sound like he's adjusting just fine and a well-behaved bird? I used what I know to work with rescued/abused/abandoned cats - who have that same "otherness" and independence about them. Respect, while also expecting respect.

Any words of caution, advice, or congratulations? Or all three?

Thanks,
Tracey

You are doing a wonderful job from what you are saying. We have 3 Amazons, 1 male Yellow Nape, 1 female DYH, and 1 male DYH. All 3 were rescues and nape was worst hated all me big time. Now 13 years later and he thinks my husband is his mate and worships that man.

I also do rescue and rehome and have had some very nasty Amazons to retrain that not all people are evil.

Keep up and good work and just email me if you need any help

THANK YOU! I have pretty good instincts with furry animals, and I had hoped it hadn't failed me just because there is feathers involved. He's sitting on my shoulder as I type, eagerly waiting for me to make breakfast, and we leave for the coast tomorrow.

I'm glad not all Amazons are evil, and he's been far more gracious than a lot of humans in learning that not all humans are evil, either.

I will definitely email you at some point, as there are things he does that just baffle me. And whether I am accurately reading that he is as smart as he seems.

Thanks again,
Tracey

Welcome to Up At Six and life with a parrot! For being a new bird owner, I think it sounds like you are doing a great job, especially since you are dealing with a rehomed possibly abused bird. I like Amazons. They are very honest parrots. You can tell when they're excited or wound up because their eyes pin and their tail feathers fan out. I'm guessing that a lot of his aggression was at least partially due to fear from all the changes he had to go through. I'm glad Paco ended up in a caring home after all he's been through.

Congrats on your new companion. I think by doing your homework, you are showing responsibility. I didn't see you mention how long you've had him. It is my believe that the shoulder is a privilege and should be earned. Even with that, I would be very-very cautious with amazons. I've owned many parrots for many yrs. I have amazons that I can totally trust, and they do ride my shoulder IN MY HOUSE ONLY. Reason for this is not that I don't trust them, it's everyone else. Amazons will get over excited in a heartbeat and will let out a bite just from attention overload. They are also notorious for changing their mood instantly. If they feel a threat from someone, a loud noise, a plane passing, whatever, they may reach out and nip their mate (you) to get them away from what ever they feel threatened by. It's not that they want to hurt you, but more of a protection of you. DYH's are great, very easy to read, but kind of difficult from the side of you face. A nip from an amazon on a cheek can cause much damage, and a scar to remind you for a long time.

Birds can "ride the wind" with clipped wings. They may not be able to gain much altitude with their own muscle, but with a little help from a breeze (like at a beach) they may get blown away. If the wind were to carry an inexperienced flighted bird, they may be miles away before they gains the strength to control their body. At this point, they are in unfamiliar territory. Also, a bright yellow head on a bright green body can be very inviting to a bird of prey that is hovering miles above you, out of sight. If you hold your bird at your forearm, at the very least you have a chance to put your body between you and any threat.

These are just my opinions, and I applaud you for your research and concerns. I too remember being very excited about the new joys I my life and wanting to share them with the world. I still do, just in a safer manner.

Wonderful said "Did" I agree with you on everything.

We have a big screened in porch which our 3 Amazons loving being on. One morning my husband was standing close to the screen with our Yellow Nape on his shoulder. I was in the house when I heard him yell " What the f***". I when running to find the nape on the flooring scared silly and my husband looking a bit scared too. A hawk had hit the screen full force trying to take our Nape right off husband's shoulder. We still have the dent in the screen to remind us what can happen in an instant. We NEVER take our 3 outside unless they are in a cage and we are right there.

I also rescued and rehomed a Red Lored Amazon that the person use to leave outside on her 2nd floor balcony all day while she was at work. The poor bird was scared silly when I got there. It had a large hole in its head. Straight to the vet I went with the bird. My Avain vet & I figure a hawk tried to get the bird through the bars which is why the hole was there from the hawks beak. It took me 3 weeks to get that bird so it wasn't scared silly and trying to bite anything that got to close, including me.

So I know people will disagree with me but please NEVER take your parrots outside unless they are in a cage and your are right there.

Mumbles and Did brought up some excellent points, and I agree with their posts.

I do not let my parrots "hang out" of my shoulder. Occasionally, if one of my Greys is on my hand, and I need both hands to do something, I will briefly put him on my shoulder. When I am done, I will put my hand up for him to "step up." If he didn't reliably step up onto my hand, I wouldn't let him up there at all. I don't do this with either of my Cockatoos. Amazons can be somewhat tempermental at times. You happen to have a DYH, which is considered one of the "hot three," along with Blue Fronts and Yellow Napes. Although each bird is different, these three are considered the most difficult of the Amazons. When a parrot is on your shoulder, your face is at risk. Why take a chance?

I am a firm believer in clipping a parrot's wings for their safety. There are many household dangers - ceiling fans, pots on the stove, etc. I give mine a moderate clip so they can still glide and won't drop like a rock. Even with clipped wings, you would be amazed at how high and far a bird can fly if it is startled or catches a gust of wind. I never take mine outside except in a bird carrier when we are going somewhere. Some people do have outside cages for their birds, but I don't because I've heard of too many things that have happened to other people's birds - hawks, raccoons, etc. I've seen a hawk go after the finches in the bushes at the back of my yard. Then there are dogs and cats. Many parrots live in homes with dogs and cats so they aren't necessarily afraid of them. Some people use feather tethers (harnesses), and their birds have adapted to wearing them.

Oh yes the "Hot 3" guess we are gluttons for punishment since we have a Male Yellow Nape, a Male Double Yellow Head, and a female Double Yellow Head. We wouldn't trade them for anything. All 3 of ours never read the books on Amazons because 99% of the time they are different.
Our make DYH is 50+ and a giant cuddle bug. You would think he is a cockatoo in incognito he loves to snuggle so much. We have had him 7 years this Christmas Eve and he still have never bitten or even tried to.
Our female DYH is 15 has a personality all her own. One minute she is hold me, me love, play with me, and then next she is "no" I just want to sit by you and play with your hair. I get so of the most wonderful hairdo's thanks to her.

And then there is our male Nape who is 21 and into everything all the time. Talk about having a terrible two year old all the time. Opening cabinets, playing in the pots & pans, climbing the louver door, playing in the bathroom cabinet under the sink, attacking water bottles, you name it. He will play with an empty water bottle for hours.

Makes life very interesting and happy

I had rescued a red-lored amazon many years ago. I worked hard to gain her trust. She came from an abused home. One day I was sitting on the couch and she was sitting on the back of the sofa, but not on me. My husband had to run to the store so he just habitually walked over and bent down to kiss me good bye. Well Molly said"No way dude she's mine. Then she reached around me and bit my cheek very close to the mouth. Of course my husband jumped back. He realized he should not have gotten close to me, that I belonged to Molly. I did got to ER and they said if she had gotten the soft tissue of the lip she would have ripped it. They put butterfly tape on my cheek and antibiotic. Molly and I are still the best of friends!

All of this is extremely useful information. Paco moved in with me in May. Prior to that, he was living in a very busy hospice office - he belonged to a patient who was an alcoholic, unable to care for himself, and while he loved Paco in his own way, he had no business with a pet. The office got him in December '08.

Not knowing anything about birds, I think he's done an incredible job at adjusting. Then I start reading all the "bad" stuff about Amazons, including that this inexperienced putz took on a bird that is considered "for the experienced owner," and I realize that he has been especially accomodating and tolerant.

The beach was not pleasant - we did not like sand, we did not like water, and we especially did not like the giant carnivorous coastal seagulls. He never got it that they were after me and not him. I didn't shoulder him at the beach because of potential predators and the wind, and he only stayed out 10-15 minutes b/c I could see how it was stressing him. And I was mindful of real carnivorous birds that might be overhead.

What do you all think of flight harnesses? Until he eats my face, I want to continue taking him out. Risky, I know, but he absolutely lights up in public and obviously enjoys all the attention. People have been very respectful when I tell them that he is not pettable, but loves attention and will put on a show for verbal praise. Paco LOVES kids.

Thanks again for the thoughts and enthusiasm. I want to be a good momma/girlfriend (the vet thinks he views me as his girlfriend). I know that I'm taking risks with him, as I have always taken risks with animals. Despite the potential for being bitten, I still think they're safer than humans! I know cats understand and appreciate when they've been rescued. Do y'all think birds do the same thing?

Tracey

Alcoholic or not, this bird was loved. For someone who had no business with a pet, he must have been doing something right. You, someone with no experience was able to handle this bird to the point of trusting him on your shoulder within 3 months. That's either brave, or ..... Both you and the bird are still in the honeymoon phase. When a bird is in a new environment, I will take a bit for him to show his true colors, 3 months is not a long time. It is my opinion that you truly don't know your bird until you've lived at lest a few yrs with him. You got him in May, in TX (depending where you are located) that is usually the tail end of breeding season for zons. Some of my sweeties birds cannot be handled daily between Feb-May due to hormonal overload. Nothing personal, that's just the way zons are wired, some more than others.

I don't believe you've seen the damage an amazon can do. For many yrs, I thought I experienced the worst of an amazon bite, until one of my BF's got a hold of my finger during a nail trim. It is something else to witness a zon clamped down and begin grinding his beak trying to touch the upper beak with the lower. Had it not been for the bone in the finger, there is no doubt he would have ripped an inch or so of my middle finger. I'm a big guy, and all my force could not pry him off. Nerve damage?, you bet. The physical pain I could deal with, the emotional pain, of having to accept that he didn't hate me took some getting used to. You tend to respect their capabilities, not fear, just respect.

I gave you scenarios that can happen because in your original post, you asked "caution, advice, or congratulations". With what you've read, you still feel what you are doing is good, then continue doing what you do. If putting your bird at risk for the sake of entertaining people is worth it, then carry on. Have you ever witness an amazon if full rage? They are beautiful, they will pose in full display, and speak and make all kinds of sounds. This is probably because they are nervous. I'd feel worse for a bird that was taken by a hawk from someone's shoulder, than someone who has gotten bit in the face. A harness will protect him from flying off, but not from the talons of a hawk. Maybe I'm a slow learner, but it took a lot longer than 3 months to learn about birds. I'm still learning after decades, and a few dozen parrots. I believe congrats is more important than advice for you.

I hope your relationship with your amazon continues to get stronger, and your love for each other remains strong. Many many times, a parrot in a new home will get endless attention, and when the newness wears off, it's back to everyday life. This is when problems may arise.

First of all I congratulate you for taking on one of the Hot 3. We also have one, only ours is a BF amazon. He was 3 in May. I handfed him but he turned on me and has bonded with hubby. While hubby can do pretty much anything with this bird, he does not risk shouldering him or taking him outside. We live in an area where hawks and eagles and other birds of prey are plentiful. Plus, having a large bird on your shoulder is asking for trouble IME. I don't know much about flight suits on large birds like 'zons, and I would be reluctant to try to get him into one at his age. I have a 6 month old WB caique who had some training in one before I bought her and she still hates me to put it on her. I can't imagine what our 3 year old male BF would do besides try to eat us that is

did wrote:... If putting your bird at risk for the sake of entertaining people is worth it, then carry on... I'd feel worse for a bird that was taken by a hawk from someone's shoulder, than someone who has gotten bit in the face... Maybe I'm a slow learner, but it took a lot longer than 3 months to learn about birds. I'm still learning after decades, and a few dozen parrots. I believe congrats is more important than advice for you. I hope your relationship with your amazon continues to get stronger, and your love for each other remains strong...

My sentiments exactly. The bird can have every bit as much excitement and good sunshine and socialization when taken outside in a small, SAFE wire crate. It might not look as cool as walking around with a parrot on your shoulder, but in actuality, it is a million times cooler.

Hello again,

Let me start by say that some of the comments were uncalled for and strongly worded without knowing enough detail. I, too, hope that the bond continues to grow, and I know that it will be a learning process for both of us for the rest of our lives.

That said, I appreciate the advice, and the reminders of how temperamental Amazons can be, and how at risk they are for predators.

A travel cage is bookmarked, and when I can afford one, I will get one. Since I've had Paco with me for 10 months, he just moved full time with me in May, we're eligible for the Delta Society at the end of the year, and the plan is to see if he's suitable for that program.

I did join this site, after learning about it from a complete stranger who thought Paco was one of the coolest birds she'd ever met. She has an Eclectus and 2 Macaws. If I thought I knew everything about birds, I wouldn't have joined. I am looking to learn, not to be told what to do. And certainly not to be indirectly accused of mindlessly putting Paco at risk for my own appearance of "looking cool." I encourage both of you to reread my posts as I think they clearly show my concern for him and for the safety of other people.

chancet64 wrote:... I didn't shoulder him at the beach because of potential predators and the wind, and he only stayed out 10-15 minutes b/c I could see how it was stressing him... Until he eats my face, I want to continue taking him out. Risky, I know, but he absolutely lights up in public and obviously enjoys all the attention... I know that I'm taking risks with him, as I have always taken risks with animals. Despite the potential for being bitten, I still think they're safer than humans!..

Tracey, these are your words that make me think you don't realize the risk TO PACO. Yes, there's surely risk to your face too, but you wouldn't likely DIE from a bite. Paco would probably die if the wind or swooping bird or screaming child or any other perceived threat caused him to fly off your arm. That's the risk I'm more concerned about. Is there a reason you don't use a lightweight cage when taking him out? Most are made to wear as backpacks, or "frontpacks." They wouldn't limit his delight in the outing at all, but they would keep him safe.

There are several small carriers in this grouping: http://toolady.ashopcart.com/catalogue.php?cat=15 The 18x19" folding carrier about midway the page would be my choice of these for an amazon, though I'd not carry 16 lbs as a backpack. Friends have enjoyed a lighter weight version of this, but I'm not finding the link just now and am out of time for looking. Here's how one clever Up at Six member did it safely: caique/topic53087.html?hilit=stroller#p77058